The encoding equations are different because QS is based on 4-corners and DS is based on the LFRB diamond. But the encoded signals produced by an audio console capable of panning the sound in a circle around the listener will produce the same encode for both systems.You know very well that QS vs Dolby matrix encoding is not the same. Look at your own quad matrix pages. I know you hate modern surround audio but really, much improvement has gone on since your record changer & DIY decoder. Do try to encounter some more modern changes and you will be rewarded.
So the image is stable no matter how you face or where you walk.Interesting about cogging. Really not trying to flog our stuff or a point but our SST really has zero cogging. Walk around, sway side to side, rotate, the image is always consistent
That makes sense. The front speakers are closer together than the back speakers. Thus the left-right level panning works in normal human hearing for positioning all around that speaker layout.I partially agree with you about cogging but it can be greatly reduced by proper speaker placement. the attached is from the Lafayette SQ-W owners manual, and has long been my prefered speaker arrangement (long before seeing it in print). There are several causes for the effect that you describe. The first is "hole in the middle stereo" you get cogging even with stereo if the speakers are too far apart! Side imaging is not as good as front imaging so the effect is even worse to the sides. With the speaker arrangement shown I have no trouble hearing smooth pans. I admit that I may be unconsciously turning my head slightly with the pan, but so what it's easier than remaining in a rigid fixed position. Yes most Quad pans were done quickly so that the cogging is less noticeable.
If that were true, then how is it I can adjust my active mixer level combinations for the front wides (which is mains + side surrounds) for a pink noise test tone for the let's say the right side surround and by varying the amount of right side surround output from the front wide (placed along the right wall in front of the first row while the side surround is behind the first row) so that the pink noise tone moves from the right side surround speaker towards the front wide speaker and place the tone anywhere in-between such as directly alongside my front row as if the side surround were directly to the right instead of at 110 degrees azimuth?When both speakers are on the same side, the hearing system detects two separate sound sources, but because both signals arrive at the ear on that side before signals from those speakers reach the other ear, the hearing system has trouble resolving the two images. It usually chooses the source that is louder or the one that arrives first. The system cannot resolve the two sources into one image. It takes the other source as an echo of the first.
TSS isa time delay equalizer, so the arrival time of left and right and the rears is equivalent everywhere within the room. I suspect magnumx is actually very sensitive to side image. We all vary in our sensitivities, for example I am super sensitive to image in general but quote poor in detecting distortion.So the image is stable no matter how you face or where you walk.
How do you keep a moving image from cogging?
My 73 year old ears aren't the best anymore, as well, but the SM still knocks my socks off, each and every time I fire it up. And that's anytime I listen to music, encoded or no, on my system. It still brings out subtleties and detail not heard otherwise.You know what really solves a disagreement? Posting snobby quotes about feeling that have literally nothing to do with observations made other than point out one's own deep seated issues of inadequacy or irrelevance.
Perhaps the SM V3 isn't what I'm looking for since my hearing apparently isn't normal so I can't trust to hear it correctly.
Working towards it, but for volume market reasons we are prioritising the mini modules of a bunch of stuff first.....eg the 6 ch amp, mini preamp , encoder all in a SM sized box. Much of the work we are doing on these mini units will end up in the super surround pre ampOf course the SM is great but we all really need the flexibility of the long awaited Super Surround Pre-Amp. Next year please Chucky?!
Where did you get the app for your hearing system to resolve side images?You can say or believe whatever you want, but what you two are saying about turning one's head or blurry imaging is absolutely not what I experience at all in the slightest. Imaging to my sides is sharp as a razor blade. It's BEHIND that is a bit harder to gauge the distance to something, but even then it's not even slightly blurry sounding or whatever you think you're describing. I've got a helicopter demo in Atmos that flies around the room, which I can have it play overhead or at ear level and it doesn't get blurry or ill defined as it goes around the room, but distance behind is harder to gauge compared to in front of me or to the sides. But the idea that the sides are somehow not sharp or distinct sounding is absolute nonsense. Perhaps you need to listen to some modern discrete surround recordings instead of QS/SQ records that have poorly defined surround channels?
If your side wide is farther to the side (from your seat) in the L-R direction than the front wide, then the front panning feature of hearing is operating.If that were true, then how is it I can adjust my active mixer level combinations for the front wides (which is mains + side surrounds) for a pink noise test tone for the let's say the right side surround and by varying the amount of right side surround output from the front wide (placed along the right wall in front of the first row while the side surround is behind the first row) so that the pink noise tone moves from the right side surround speaker towards the front wide speaker and place the tone anywhere in-between such as directly alongside my front row as if the side surround were directly to the right instead of at 110 degrees azimuth?
According to what you're saying, I should either hear two separate sounds or just one of them, yet only the combination of the two (combined array) could appear in locations between the two speakers. There is no delay used for this, just an active mixer essentially just varying how much output come from the front wide versus the side surround. There is no output from any other speakers (pure discrete tone from an Atmos speaker tone, no matrix decoding or upmixing involved either, just pure pink noise coming from two speakers at the same time on the right wall in front of and behind my chair which is between the two sets of speakers). How do you explain this?
Is it really SO hard to believe that you perhaps it's not your hearing and you simply have set up a system that doesn't image correctly? If you listen to an Atmos album like Yello's new album Point, there are obvious and clear effects that move around the room in a rectangle. Even Alan Parsons' ON AIR album from the 1990s has him walk around the room from the left surround to the right surround and then forward to the right front speaker and then to the left to where the center speaker would sit (It doesn't actually use a center speaker). Do you truly believe that they panned these effects like that just for the hell of it because people can't hear them???If yo
If your side wide is farther to the side (from your seat) in the L-R direction than the front wide, then the front panning feature of hearing is operating.
Either that or you have developed an app for your hearing system that the rest of us do not have.
Maybe it is a learned process from repeatedly hearing sounds that you already know the intended pan position of. For most people, it is intended to locate sounds enough so you can turn your head and see the sound producing device.
Wrong, Wrong,Wrong!!! I've always listened to Quad in some form since 1972 and that is by far the best setup for the typical living room! I've tried every possible configuration over the years. Do you sit in an armchair in the middle of the speakers like some drawings show! That is totally impractical! Speaker placed behind you sound best if you are in a small room with the speakers close together, The QS-1 synthesizer sounds good with such a set up, but does almost nothing in a larger room. Most of my listening is to enhanced stereo via the S&IC or Vario-Matrix (surround), the stereo mix is pulled apart and spread around the room, that is the most effective way to hear it. To just listen to regular stereo I would just as soon listen to mono! I don't notice any cogging effect with my speaker setup.Putting the surround speakers on either side of the couch is probably the worst configuration ever conceived.
Wow. What a great argument.Wrong, Wrong,Wrong!!!
Did you ever try adding a passive set of front wide speakers using a mere active mixer to lower the angular gap between surrounds (6 instead of 4?). No, I didn't think so. You obviously never tried the "best" setup. Perfect 360 sound without all these cogging issues.I've always listened to Quad in some form since 1972 and that is by far the best setup for the typical living room! I've tried every possible configuration over the years.
No, I actually have three rows of armchairs.Do you sit in an armchair in the middle of the speakers like some drawings show! That is totally impractical!
Enter your email address to join:
Register today and take advantage of membership benefits.
Enter your email address to join: