Re-birth of Ambisonics and Soundfield Microphones?

[Bonzodog]

Ambisonics and Soundfield Microphones were all over the Audio Engineering Society’s convention in New York last month.

Michael Abrash, chief scientist of Oculus VR kicked it off with his opening keynote speech.

Seems Ambisonics works well with the head tracking devices used for VR. And it works well for height info in Dolby Atmos and similar systems.

No equipment on the exhibit floor upstairs for Ambisonics, and no new Soundfield mics that I saw, but many of the technical sessions in the rooms downstairs mentioned how well Soundfield mics and Ambisonics were working for them on projects they had.

More mentions about this technology at the convention than I have heard in over 30 years.

We have a guy using one of our Soundfield Mark V’s on an Oculus project this weekend. First time we have used one of these mics in quite a few years.

Everything that’s old is new again.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Natalie Merchant's 2015 recording on the Nonesuch label is reported as being UHJ encoded.

album title: Paradise is there(The New Tigerlily Recordings).Don't look for any uhj/ambisonics indication in the album liner notes.I have the cd/dvd version and there is naught a blurb.

Info comes via two web sites; "Bubblesqueak.Co.UK" and "ProSoundWeb.com"

Jacques Boulanger & Holly Post of Creative Audio Post (NY ,Manhattan) did the mix in B format quad channel with the use of two TSL Soundfield mics-ST-450'S in March 2015. One mic placed in the balcony for audience sounds and one mic on stage to capture the String Orchestra.

 

[fredblue]

WOW.!! :yikes

Thanks for the info, fizzy wizzy lets get busy!

"All" we need now with the vinyl revival is for an SQ/QS vinyl revival and they start re-pressing the old Quad gems on LP... hehe.. stranger things have happened

 

[DuncanS]

Not exactly a re-birth, just an article on "Dummy Heads" from Wireless World in September 1974

 

[krkier]

Not exactly a re-birth, just an article on "Dummy Heads" from Wireless World in September 1974

One or the other sampler album with artificial head recordings ("Kunstkopf Stereophonie") were released here in Germany:

-Kristian

 

[stevendive]

Natalie Merchant's 2015 recording on the Nonesuch label is reported as being UHJ encoded.

album title: Paradise is there(The New Tigerlily Recordings).Don't look for any uhj/ambisonics indication in the album liner notes.I have the cd/dvd version and there is naught a blurb.

Info comes via two web sites; "Bubblesqueak.Co.UK" and "ProSoundWeb.com"

Jacques Boulanger & Holly Post of Creative Audio Post (NY ,Manhattan) did the mix in B format quad channel with the use of two TSL Soundfield mics-ST-450'S in March 2015. One mic placed in the balcony for audience sounds and one mic on stage to capture the String Orchestra.

It seems the only way of knowing whether the album is fully 2 channel UHJ would be to try a UHJ decoder. I may get a copy to try out with mine. But some, few, recordings with UHJ as part of the mix are intended to be heard using standard stereo playback (eg. Tina Turner - Break Every Rule, where some of the backing sound was like this). Maybe the Natalie Merchant album is one of these. Using an ambi mike does not necessarily mean the released recording is in ambisonic format. Rather usefully, a B-Format recording can be laid down as 4.0 channel pre-decoded for horizontal playback, which would be B- Format to G-Format conversion, that can be used for playback without an ambisonic decoder. The original B-Format recording is still the 3D soundfield archive and could be used for a full sphere ambisonic release.

Ambisonics, especially so called Higher Order Ambisonics (HOA), is still being developed and used, as commented, in the VR world. It works very well for binaural using HRTF. There is a technically based mailing list hosted by Virginia Tech for anyone who may be interested, contributing or lurking are both acceptable.

My own decoder can utilise horizontal B-Format material and I’m waiting for the day when full B-Format stuff becomes more widely available. Not holding my breath, yet. At least ambisonics decoders are still in production for home use.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Natalie Merchant's 2015 recording on the Nonesuch label is reported as being UHJ encoded.

album title: Paradise is there(The New Tigerlily Recordings).Don't look for any uhj/ambisonics indication in the album liner notes.I have the cd/dvd version and there is naught a blurb.

Info comes via two web sites; "Bubblesqueak.Co.UK" and "ProSoundWeb.com"

Jacques Boulanger & Holly Post of Creative Audio Post (NY ,Manhattan) did the mix in B format quad channel with the use of two TSL Soundfield mics-ST-450'S in March 2015. One mic placed in the balcony for audience sounds and one mic on stage to capture the String Orchestra.

@Mark Anderson

Here is the info on the Natalie Merchant album cd/dvd.

NATALIE MERCHANT-PARADISE IS THERE , THE NEW TIGERLILY RECORDINGS (UHJ) Nonesuch 550587 - 2 CD DVD , U.S.A

and The Corndogs :

The Corndogs - Tell Your Friends There's Friends Around , BMG/Latent Recordings (UHJ) , Canada
CD Latent 06 , and cassette , Latex C6.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

@Mark Anderson

Here is the info on the Natalie Merchant album cd/dvd.

NATALIE MERCHANT-PARADISE IS THERE , THE NEW TIGERLILY RECORDINGS (UHJ) Nonesuch 550587 - 2 CD DVD , U.S.A

Sorry @Mark Anderson

I forgot to mention that the Natalie Merchant DVD from the cd/dvd set is in DTS 5.1 and dolby stereo. So it must be the CD only that would be Ambisonic (UHJ).

 

[Mark Anderson]

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I too heard the Merchant recording used a soundfield mic and was recorded to B-Format. I have not heard anything about UHJ encoding to two channel. Same with the Corndogs. The use of a soundfield mic does not make it Ambisonic. A UHJ encoder must be used between the mic and the recorder. If I am missing other information, please let me know.

 

[stevendive]

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I too heard the Merchant recording used a soundfield mic and was recorded to B-Format. I have not heard anything about UHJ encoding to two channel. Same with the Corndogs. The use of a soundfield mic does not make it Ambisonic. A UHJ encoder must be used between the mic and the recorder. If I am missing other information, please let me know.

So far in my experience, UHJ albums have always been marked with the overlapping circles motif to indicate them as ambisonic. I have the Natalie Merchant ‘Tigerlilly’ CD, which sounds good on playback in ‘superstereo’ but wrong in UHJ, but I have yet to try the ‘Paradise Is There’.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I too heard the Merchant recording used a soundfield mic and was recorded to B-Format. I have not heard anything about UHJ encoding to two channel. Same with the Corndogs. The use of a soundfield mic does not make it Ambisonic. A UHJ encoder must be used between the mic and the recorder. If I am missing other information, please let me know.

Did you check out the two websites with the Calrec ambisonic reference to recording her album in b format in "quad" ?

As to The Corndogs album , no response has been received by Mr. Peter Moore , of which someone other than myself had a direct contact.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Did you check out the two websites with the Calrec ambisonic reference to recording her album in b format in "quad" ?

Not that I am aware of, why do you mention it?

As to The Corndogs album , no response has been received by Mr. Peter Moore , of which someone other than myself had a direct contact.

With his career in classical music I can see why the interests in the Calrec mic, I would like to know what UHJ encoder he used on the Trinity Session and Whites Off Earth Now and why he chose to use an upmixer on the latter than a UHJ decode on the SACD

 

[fizzywiggs41]

One or the other sampler album with artificial head recordings ("Kunstkopf Stereophonie") were released here in Germany:

View attachment 32566 View attachment 32567

-Kristian

@krkier

THOSE 2 are way.....Kool, btw what label were they released on ?

 

[par4ken]

@krkier

THOSE 2 are way.....Kool, btw what label were they released on ?

https://www.discogs.com/master/279837-Various-Super-Rock-Festivalhttps://www.discogs.com/master/829375-Various-Super-Rock-Festival-Vol2

 

[jaybird100]

Not that I am aware of, why do you mention it?


With his career in classical music I can see why the interests in the Calrec mic, I would like to know what UHJ encoder he used on the Trinity Session and Whites Off Earth Now and why he chose to use an upmixer on the latter than a UHJ decode on the SACD

I was under the impression the Calrec microphone needed no encoder, as it put out an encoded signal. Correct me if I'm wrong...?

 

[Soundfield]

I was under the impression the Calrec microphone needed no encoder, as it put out an encoded signal. Correct me if I'm wrong...?

It's not quite that simple. Here's an excellent explanation (from SOS magazine 2001) of the concept of the Soundfield Microphone and its application in Ambisonic recording..
Surround Sound microphone techniques

 

[jaybird100]

It's not quite that simple. Here's an excellent explanation (from SOS magazine 2001) of the concept of the Soundfield Microphone and its application in Ambisonic recording..
Surround Sound microphone techniques

So you're saying the encoder isn't built into the microphone?

 

[stevendive]

I was under the impression the Calrec microphone needed no encoder, as it put out an encoded signal. Correct me if I'm wrong...?

Depending on the model, a Calrec outputs either A-format or B-format but not UHJ directly, which is made from the B-format master. A Calrec can be used straight into a UHJ encoder though, which happened on the Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Sessions original album.

it’s worth a mention that UHJ generally discussed is really BHJ, the 2 channel matrixed version. Originally UHJ was intended to extend to 3 & 4 channel versions but encoded material and processors were never made, at least not commercially.

 

[Soundfield]

So you're saying the encoder isn't built into the microphone?

Yes. As the quoted article explains, the Soundfield microphone itself is basically just a four channel microphone with remotely controllable patterns.

 

[Pontoneer]

Not exactly a re-birth, just an article on "Dummy Heads" from Wireless World in September 1974
View attachment 32561View attachment 32562

I can clearly recall reading that , and similar articles , in HFN/RR and Hi-Fi Sound back in the day .

At that time , I was a first year electronics student , wasting away my spare time working in a Hi-Fi shop ( later became my career ) and we had one of the Sennheisser records for demo purposes . I sold a lot of HD 414 and HD 424 headsets with that , and still have my own HD 424s which must now be almost 50 years old ( but they look new since you can still get the original yellow foam ear pads for them !

What was also reported at the time was that you could use a pair of HD 424s as microphones , simply by turning the capsules around on the headband and wearing them . This very simple method produced surprisingly good recordings .

I also remember , from the time , a BBC broadcast , which was recorded in binaural , about an RAF fighter pilot in a dogfight and being shot down , with the binaural sound of him bailing out , wind blowing around him , and the sounds of other aircraft flying nearby ; I may still have a recording of this on cassette ...

Coming back to Ambisonics , I well remember Peter Felgett , who I think developed the Calrec Soundfield mic and Ambisonic decoders ( only one I ever saw was the IMF one ) writing into the various magazines , as I recall he was very approachable and I corresponded with him a few times .

I much prefer listening to loudspeakers and after tiring of my 5.0 system with Sony TA-e1000ESD , SDP-EP9 ES and SQD-2020 decoders , I went back to 2 channel audio , which properly set up can sound very natural , and the acoustic doublet output of my Quad ESL 63s fill the room with very convincing imagery . Sometimes surround effects created acoustically can be more satisfying than those created electronically ; after all the performers tend to sit on a stage in front of the audience and the ambience is created by the room .