I have been struggling with this project for some time. I have quadraphonic media in vinyl and tape format that I want to save in digital form before they all turn to dust. Seems simplistic in my mind, but I am frustrated by the mechanics. I have the equipment to decode quad records and two quad capable tape decks. I know how to use that equipment. I am stymied on recording this media so that I can save and replay it via computer or DVD. I keep running into issues where the hardware insists on recording in, or mixing down to stereo while saving tracks. I have tried various daws with their seemingly steep learning curves with no joy. I just want to record the four tracks, save the four tracks and playback the four tracks in digital format. I have a PC running Windows10 64 bit and a Mac. I have a Uphoria UMC 404HD and a OPPO 103, (have not utilized the OPPO). No combination of these have so far worked for me. Is there a simple or down and dirty way of doing this? I think at this point I would pay to have someone show me how to do this successfully as I think I'm too stupid to figure it out. Any help appreciated.
Recording, saving and playing back Quadraphonic Media
- Thread starter wiztom
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
You can get a 4 channel audio interface, use a DAW like Reaper and record the 4 channels discretely, one channel per track.
If your records aren't CD4 ( ie: are QS/RM/SQ encoded ) you can just record them in stereo, and decode them on playback.
If your records aren't CD4 ( ie: are QS/RM/SQ encoded ) you can just record them in stereo, and decode them on playback.
if you can get the 4 tracks into the digital domain (which you should be able to do with the Uphoria interface and a suitable sound card in the computer), all you need to do is use a software like AUDACITY to render a multichannel playable digital album. What I do is employ a KORG D888 recorder that will record 4 tracks from analog inputs, and can also transfer the tracks via USB to my computer. Then as I said combine the tracks to a multichannel FLAC file.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2010
- Messages
- 3,025
Any modern audio interface with at least 4 inputs is an excellent recording device. Audio interfaces connect by USB, firewire, thunderbolt, pci (sound card), or HDMI. The USB connecting models are plentiful and perfectly suited for the job. (The firewire and thunderbolt models are more for running live sound which requires imperceptible low latency. Some of the pci card models have low latency but most of these are the more cheap dictation quality "sound cards". Avoid HDMI products in general. (Too much copy protection gone wild stuff.)
The critical part is still the analog connection to the legacy gear. Decoding analog encoder formats is the most critical and most difficult. If this is about preserving a rare recording to digital to the highest standards, this can be a deep well! You kind of want to pull out all the stops for that! (More time is spent in research to track down the most intact analog copies to start from.)
If this is just about making a copy to casually listen to (like we used to do recording vinyl to cassette), the ADCs in any modern pro audio interface will make the most excellent recording of any recording device you've ever owned! Record to 24 bit @ 96k sample rate. Reduce the sample rate to 48k or 44.1k after (NOT during recording) if you wish to save disc space and approve of your DAC performance at SD sample rates. Or leave them 24/96 flac like you download from HDTracks. Always record and keep 24 bit. Reaper DAW lets you record and work with flac files directly, FYI.
Even if this is 98% casual and maybe 1 or 2 important rare recordings to capture, any professional-ish USB connecting interface will do an excellent job. 99% of the transfer quality is in the analog signal handling and any analog matrix decoding. All the more frugal options would do well - MOTU, Focusrite, Presonus, Behringer (The newer Midas/Behringer hybrid products, not the old "B-word" products.) Just avoid the shit on Amazon with only unbalanced rca connectors for audio or HDMI host connection.
The critical part is still the analog connection to the legacy gear. Decoding analog encoder formats is the most critical and most difficult. If this is about preserving a rare recording to digital to the highest standards, this can be a deep well! You kind of want to pull out all the stops for that! (More time is spent in research to track down the most intact analog copies to start from.)
If this is just about making a copy to casually listen to (like we used to do recording vinyl to cassette), the ADCs in any modern pro audio interface will make the most excellent recording of any recording device you've ever owned! Record to 24 bit @ 96k sample rate. Reduce the sample rate to 48k or 44.1k after (NOT during recording) if you wish to save disc space and approve of your DAC performance at SD sample rates. Or leave them 24/96 flac like you download from HDTracks. Always record and keep 24 bit. Reaper DAW lets you record and work with flac files directly, FYI.
Even if this is 98% casual and maybe 1 or 2 important rare recordings to capture, any professional-ish USB connecting interface will do an excellent job. 99% of the transfer quality is in the analog signal handling and any analog matrix decoding. All the more frugal options would do well - MOTU, Focusrite, Presonus, Behringer (The newer Midas/Behringer hybrid products, not the old "B-word" products.) Just avoid the shit on Amazon with only unbalanced rca connectors for audio or HDMI host connection.
I'm about to get working on this project as well. I have about 100 Quads to record to my computer so I can keep the music going from my home office!
Wiztom did you end up making any progress on this? Did you get the Korg that MlRocker recommended?
Researching Audacity so we can do it at more of a consumer level (cheap hardware, free or close to free software).
Multi-channel Recording - Audacity Manual
- Hardware support: you need a sound card or external audio interface which has enough Analog to Digital Converters (ADC's) to do multi-channel recording. Most consumer cards only have one stereo pair of ADC's that is switched between various inputs such as Line-In and "Mic". You will need at least a semi-professional device to find support for multi-channel recording.
From this thread I can see at least 1 recommended hardware option, the KORG 888 for about 2-250 price range online with a USB out. I'm seeing 15 dollar 2 CH Analog to USB Digital Converters online that for Quad you could use 2 of them at the same time. If anyone can attest to the quality of these I just want exactly what is coming out of the Quadraphonic amp going to USB without necessarily having to change tone or volume as you would find on the Korg. As long as it doesn't change the audio sound is ideal.
Can anyone recommend anything cheaper/easier on a consumer level that would allow 4 channels of input and USB out in one device or a preferred 2CH to USB they would suggest?
Software:
Multi USB in - There's a few tutorials for recording from 2 USB sources at the same time if using 2 inexpensive Analog to Digital Converters.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=record+2+stereo+usb+to+one+computerSingle USB in - If using a pro mixer to USB, Reaper suggested above is free for 60 days. Ready set start recoding! It's not too much for a single use license after that.
omnipotent1
Well-known Member
OP hasn't posted since January 2022.Guessing they moved on
You might have better luck searching or starting a new thread.
You might have better luck searching or starting a new thread.
Yes Sir. Ten million posts about how to do it. I encourage the @DudeRocks poster to use the search function.
This is the first one that comes up on Google, only recommends Borg888 for others who find their way here, and dead ends at a couple last ditch posters who insist it's a dead end. Hence why I resurrected it. Why not help the community and add what you know here? To help with that, what is a good link to your favorite thread on this subject to help others who find this #1 top hit in a google search?
What is your favorite thread on the subject? If there are so many please do not pull one out of your search but bring one up you were personally actively engaged in a discussion that you would think to help others who find this 1st in a google search. Do you have anything constructive to help in this for others starting out?
Hi,
I've bought a Focusrite Scarlett 2ch for recording CD4 with carrier at 192/24 straight to USB (just after the RIAA). Works very well, Audacity for easy repair (button) the knocks.
(from Windows7 on more than 48kHz is blocked for internal devices, not blocked at external analog-USB).
Now I've bought a Tascam 4ch for 4.0 recording, also available with 8ch for 5.1 and 7.1. Works all perfectly.
Found on Facebook a Dean Zemaitaitis who does the recordings very well, but I don't know which tools he use for splitting the channels in a special good way (using scripts..)
this is not directed at anyone in particular and is simply intended as a general comment, not to deter anyone from archiving/preserving their collection but to save time, effort and expense where perhaps it may not be entirely necessary.
fwiw, at this stage almost everything significant (and a lot that's less major) in Quad has been covered in some shape or form, whether through amateur conversions or official releases, some on disc, others in streaming form.
in particular, if you're looking to transfer any Sony/CBS Rock & Pop (i.e. Columbia, Epic, Monument, T-Neck, PIR, CTI, Blue Sky, etc.) then i would say it's not worth it since pretty much all of it is either streaming in Dolby Audio/Sony 360 Reality Audio, or on SACD courtesy of Sony, Sony Japan, Dutton Vocalion, or has been converted from Q8 8-track or SQ LP and is out there in various forms on various sharing platforms.
for any ABC/Command QS titles, while these have all been converted by amateurs over the years and some are out there in great quality, there have been no official reissues so these may be worthwhile transfering one's discs or tapes.
in the vast majority of cases, the Warner/Atlantic/Elektra/Atco/Asylum/RSO/Capricorn Quads are also out there in amateur conversions, from Quad Reels, Q8s and CD-4 LPs and of course there's the Doobie Brothers, Black Sabbath, Alice Cooper, Jefferson Starship & J. Geils Official Blu-ray Quadio releases from Rhino.
for all other labels it's a mixed bag but again almost all mainstream Quad releases whether on labels such as Stax, Fantasy/Prestige/Milestone, Hi-Records, Buddah, Vanguard, Arista and so on, in SQ/QS, CD-4, Q8, Q4 form, you name it, somebody somewhere at some time will have transferred it already.
fwiw, at this stage almost everything significant (and a lot that's less major) in Quad has been covered in some shape or form, whether through amateur conversions or official releases, some on disc, others in streaming form.
in particular, if you're looking to transfer any Sony/CBS Rock & Pop (i.e. Columbia, Epic, Monument, T-Neck, PIR, CTI, Blue Sky, etc.) then i would say it's not worth it since pretty much all of it is either streaming in Dolby Audio/Sony 360 Reality Audio, or on SACD courtesy of Sony, Sony Japan, Dutton Vocalion, or has been converted from Q8 8-track or SQ LP and is out there in various forms on various sharing platforms.
for any ABC/Command QS titles, while these have all been converted by amateurs over the years and some are out there in great quality, there have been no official reissues so these may be worthwhile transfering one's discs or tapes.
in the vast majority of cases, the Warner/Atlantic/Elektra/Atco/Asylum/RSO/Capricorn Quads are also out there in amateur conversions, from Quad Reels, Q8s and CD-4 LPs and of course there's the Doobie Brothers, Black Sabbath, Alice Cooper, Jefferson Starship & J. Geils Official Blu-ray Quadio releases from Rhino.
for all other labels it's a mixed bag but again almost all mainstream Quad releases whether on labels such as Stax, Fantasy/Prestige/Milestone, Hi-Records, Buddah, Vanguard, Arista and so on, in SQ/QS, CD-4, Q8, Q4 form, you name it, somebody somewhere at some time will have transferred it already.
i should add, back when i was transferring old Quads years ago, i was using a MOTU UltraLite FireWire multichannel audio interface together with Audacity software on an Apple Mac and it was incredibly easy to use and intuitive.
over a roughly 5 year period, using the MOTU Interface together with an Involve Surround Master for SQ & QS records, a CD-4 demodulator, turntable and an Akai Q8 deck, i recorded in well over 500 old Quads on Q8 8-track tape and SQ, QS and CD-4 vinyl records, so i certainly would not want to put anyone here off similarly doing so, it's just that in the years since then so many Quads have been reissued in some format from the mastertapes which has rendered a lot of the old Quad records and consumer tapes obsolete.
over a roughly 5 year period, using the MOTU Interface together with an Involve Surround Master for SQ & QS records, a CD-4 demodulator, turntable and an Akai Q8 deck, i recorded in well over 500 old Quads on Q8 8-track tape and SQ, QS and CD-4 vinyl records, so i certainly would not want to put anyone here off similarly doing so, it's just that in the years since then so many Quads have been reissued in some format from the mastertapes which has rendered a lot of the old Quad records and consumer tapes obsolete.
Fred You are right - reinventing the wheel
But what to do if you can't find a good wheel?
spent a lot of money for cheap reproductions on DVD, see also the comments about the new Paranoid. Buying a Black Sabbath box with the Quadradisc, but there was no CD-4 in.
On Youtube is always a 50/50 chance to get a multichannel, or the other channels above stereo are simply striped off...
But what to do if you can't find a good wheel?
spent a lot of money for cheap reproductions on DVD, see also the comments about the new Paranoid. Buying a Black Sabbath box with the Quadradisc, but there was no CD-4 in.
On Youtube is always a 50/50 chance to get a multichannel, or the other channels above stereo are simply striped off...
Last edited:
Which one do you recommend? Scarlett Audio Interface Range | Focusrite
Is this the Tascam you had? US-4x4HR | OVERVIEW | TASCAM - United States
The Korg mentioned above looks like it's about the same price range, it may be massive overkill but likely helpful for this kind of a project https://www.amazon.com/Korg-Digital-Audio-Multi-Recorder/dp/B00FVQ363G
Depend on what you wanna do - think Korg is a bit much.
Think Tascam and Focusrite came from the same kitchen or around the corner. They work the same way, nearly same software.
For me the 192kHz 24bit were important for recording nativ CD-4 with a fine sinus. There were 2ch all I need.
Tascam 4ch is good if you record the 4ch after the demodulator or matrix to get a 4.0 with 48 (44) kHz 24bit. That seems to be very common.
From that 4.0 you can easily make a 5.0 or 5.1 with some simple programs on computer.
But both are made for instruments, not for recording vinyl: they have single volumen controls. I put a 4ch Poti (100k) in front for better synchronisation.
For editing Audacity (free) seems for me the best and easiest.
For playback I use an old Dune Max with 5.1/7.1 out, switches automatic from the Stereo Out to both front and rear = 4.0 or 5.x
The separate Stereo Out is good for CD-4 .WAV, the other multichannel out play only as .FLAC !!
But if you want to spend more, everybody here states: OPPO is best.
Good luck!
Think Tascam and Focusrite came from the same kitchen or around the corner. They work the same way, nearly same software.
For me the 192kHz 24bit were important for recording nativ CD-4 with a fine sinus. There were 2ch all I need.
Tascam 4ch is good if you record the 4ch after the demodulator or matrix to get a 4.0 with 48 (44) kHz 24bit. That seems to be very common.
From that 4.0 you can easily make a 5.0 or 5.1 with some simple programs on computer.
But both are made for instruments, not for recording vinyl: they have single volumen controls. I put a 4ch Poti (100k) in front for better synchronisation.
For editing Audacity (free) seems for me the best and easiest.
For playback I use an old Dune Max with 5.1/7.1 out, switches automatic from the Stereo Out to both front and rear = 4.0 or 5.x
The separate Stereo Out is good for CD-4 .WAV, the other multichannel out play only as .FLAC !!
But if you want to spend more, everybody here states: OPPO is best.
Good luck!
So you are recording CD-4 at 192/24, I assume so you are above the 30KHz carrier signal.
Once recorded as stereo -if I'm reading your post correctly- I'm unclear how you are able to reproduce the Quad sound from here on playback.
(Note: I am not trying to rip any CD-4 LP's so this is mostly out of curiosity, but may be helpful to others as I've never seen this technique utilized.)
Otherwise there are plenty of audio interfaces that can be used to to live record the decoded 4 channel output, such as a Motu device, etc. and a free DAW such as Audacity.
thanks.
I recorded most of my vinyl with a normal Amp. All CD-4 were noisy, destroyed. Later I got the idea what I recorded: the carrier.
My Compi has only 2 ch input, so I can't record 4ch as with my tape (now the heads are down) and externe like Tascam etc. were not available at that time.
Recording the native CD-4 is very easy: solder a wire (2 of course) after the RIAA pre amp, before the low pass filter. A very stable signal, good to edit.
Luckly my old XP compi could record up to 192/24. Win7 and later is blocking this. Now it's only possible with extern analog to USB recorders like Tascam etc.
You can also do a needle drop, as most do it, record the tiny signal that comes from the magnet system. I stopt that when I heard neighbors telefone in the recording.
For play back you can use the same wire, but you have to cut the connections to the RIAA pre amp. A little switch will re-connect it for recording (so you have now 4 wires connected at the switch.
Play back from compi, DVD or better a media player. If it don't work - disconnect the HDMI, the handshake with the TV will limit the players output to 20kHz or so (use RGB).
(CD-4 carrier is a frequency stable 30kHz signal, you will see it in Audacity)
My Compi has only 2 ch input, so I can't record 4ch as with my tape (now the heads are down) and externe like Tascam etc. were not available at that time.
Recording the native CD-4 is very easy: solder a wire (2 of course) after the RIAA pre amp, before the low pass filter. A very stable signal, good to edit.
Luckly my old XP compi could record up to 192/24. Win7 and later is blocking this. Now it's only possible with extern analog to USB recorders like Tascam etc.
You can also do a needle drop, as most do it, record the tiny signal that comes from the magnet system. I stopt that when I heard neighbors telefone in the recording.
For play back you can use the same wire, but you have to cut the connections to the RIAA pre amp. A little switch will re-connect it for recording (so you have now 4 wires connected at the switch.
Play back from compi, DVD or better a media player. If it don't work - disconnect the HDMI, the handshake with the TV will limit the players output to 20kHz or so (use RGB).
(CD-4 carrier is a frequency stable 30kHz signal, you will see it in Audacity)
Attachments
True that! Paranoid DVD-Audio is decent but no where as
I was so peaved when I opened the box and read the actual album cover, they pulled a bait and switch! LOL Who the heck wants Quad in Stereo on an LP? Just no! CD-4 must be a lost technique. The box is still cool, I got the Vol 4 and Sabotage as well but find myself mainly listening to the originals as I think they sound better.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Very interesting!
Similar threads
