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Rhino acquires Jefferson Starship & Hot Tuna Catalogues

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sfactor23

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I just revisited both, have to correct the record: Dragon Fly is indeed a pretty boring mix, definitely what I'd call "big stereo" with not a lot of front-to-back difference. What's weird is that the lead vocal is in all four, but the backing vocals are only in the fronts. Playing with the channel assignments on this one might prove interesting...

Red Octopus, on the other hand, is actually pretty discrete. It's a little front-heavy, but there is definitely discrete information in the rears. The song "Miracles" has all the vocals upfront with some percussion and strings discrete in the rears.
Miracles alone would be worth the price admission to me - that song doesn’t bring back memories; it brings back feelings -
 

halbroome

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Actually, Grace Slick and manager Bill Thompson won control of the name “Jefferson Starship” after Kantner tried to sue to stop them from using the name in 1985 that included an agreement that the name wouldn’t be used going forward.

It is my understanding that she gets a piece of the action of both of the bands currently touring as “Starship” and “Jefferson Starship”
When I interviewed Papa John Creach in 1994, he was shocked to see the JA LOVES YOU box I had for him to sign; he knew nothing about it, but shrugged, "Paul has the name Jefferson." Lawsuits continued, as you said, but it was only resolved last December (after Paul's death) when it went to Grace, Bill Thompson, and Craig Chaquico (just saw the article on that -- it is why the Rhino releases all have him on it!). Craig can use the name "Jefferson Starship" but not Airplane, which at one time required everyone in the group to sign off.

So no BLOWS (RCA), sigh, this is Grunt records. And no doubt the lawsuits will continue each time an original member dies. . . .
 
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keywhiz

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When I interviewed Papa John Creach in 1994, he was shocked to see the JA LOVES YOU box I had for him to sign; he knew nothing about it, but shrugged, "Paul has the name Jefferson." Lawsuits continued, as you said, but it was only resolved last December (after Paul's death) when it went to Grace, Bill Thompson, and Craig Chaquico (just saw the article on that -- it is why the Rhino releases all have him on it!). Craig can use the name "Jefferson Starship" but not Airplane, which at one time required everyone in the group to sign off.

So no BLOWS (RCA), sigh, as it is Grunt records. And no doubt the lawsuits will continue each time an original member dies. . . .
Odd that “Blows” isn’t included as this deal with Rhino seems to essentially be everything released on the “Grunt” label.

Or maybe it is included? Here’s a “partial” list of all the albums and “Blows” isn’t named, but maybe they just missed it?

The list names two JA albums that were released on Grunt, but not the first one, “Bark”

But certainly many non-Chaquico related titles are part of this deal. But maybe he controls some ownership of them now as well?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2019/music/news/jefferson-starship-hot-tuna-reissues-coming-from-rhino-1203126507/amp/

Edit: I see now that “Blows” wasn’t ever a Grunt Records release.
 
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halbroome

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The 90s remaster of SUNFIGHTER in CD was fantastic; my fave, though, is BARON VON TOLLBOOTH AND THE CHROME NUN, but unfortunately that remaster didn't sound nearly as good (but we were happy to have both, as they had not appeared on CDs before). Bad tapes? Crummy engineering? At any rate, hopefully the Rhino release will sound better for BARON. (The brickwalled recent remasters of the JAs serve as a warning that it could be worse!)

I'm one of the few that enjoys LONG JOHN SILVER (while admitting it has problems -- Grace was obviously on a bender and "Son of Jesus" has me cringing from reasons other than the lyrics). LJS doesn't sound very good either. One of the issues with the band, as I recall one of the members (Grace?) saying, is that "everyone and thing's sound is mid-range!"

Sort of mushes it all together. . . .
 

4-earredwonder

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When I interviewed Papa John Creach in 1994, he was shocked to see the JA LOVES YOU box I had for him to sign; he knew nothing about it, but shrugged, "Paul has the name Jefferson." Lawsuits continued, as you said, but it was only resolved last December (after Paul's death) when it went to Grace, Bill Thompson, and Craig Chaquico (just saw the article on that -- it is why the Rhino releases all have him on it!). Craig can use the name "Jefferson Starship" but not Airplane, which at one time required everyone in the group to sign off.

So no BLOWS (RCA), sigh, as it is Grunt records. And no doubt the lawsuits will continue each time an original member dies. . . .
Speaking of Papa John Creach, wish Dutton Vocalion would release his eponymous QUAD album on SACD which includes his gorgeous rendition of Over the Rainbow!


 
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halbroome

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keywhiz

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Ok, here's last December's court case:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-jefferson-starship/jefferson-starship-members-settle-lawsuit-over-band-name-idUSKBN1O32IF?fbclid=IwAR0ZG4o5FHB8cFhSj3KTQRL18hYT4VFOIO3N3QK2Bj8sIuY1NH9hkwSaEeQ

Looks like Chaquico alone got the "Jefferson Starship" name in 1985 -- and allowed Paul to use it until his death. Then it reached this case.
Interesting. While it doesn’t specifically say that Chaquico alone got the name in 1985, it does seem to imply that.

Would be interesting to know how he ended up with it and not any of the others!

Nice to hear they settled it all however. No one needs to be fighting over such stuff in their old age.

Friedberg (who is now 80!) and Baldwin have been touring as Jefferson Starship with a band that plays songs from all three eras. I guess that’s what spawned the latest lawsuit.
 

Wagonmaster_91

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Glad to see Modern Times and Nuclear Furniture will be available again. Those two have been out of print since Friday Music issued them as a remastered 2-on-1. That disc has been cut out out for years and now sells for big bucks. Reviews of that 2-on-1 are mixed - some say the remasters sound great, while others have said they are brickwalled. (The Jefferson Airplane Culture Factory re-issues are brickwalled - everything is loud, destroying any soft/loud dynamics in the music.) Anyone here have the Friday Music 2-on-1 MT/NF CD and can comment on the quality?
 

Wagonmaster_91

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"Starship featuring Mickey Thomas" played a local festival here last May (2018). Judging by the band's name I have to think Mickey was the only original member. (I did not see the show.)
 

keywhiz

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Ok, here's last December's court case:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-jefferson-starship/jefferson-starship-members-settle-lawsuit-over-band-name-idUSKBN1O32IF?fbclid=IwAR0ZG4o5FHB8cFhSj3KTQRL18hYT4VFOIO3N3QK2Bj8sIuY1NH9hkwSaEeQ

Looks like Chaquico alone got the "Jefferson Starship" name in 1985 -- and allowed Paul to use it until his death. Then it reached this case.
Wow. This band stuff sure can get complicated once money is involved! Because I'm a bit of legal nerd, I looked up the actual court cases. Here's a brief summary of the history as near as I can decipher it. lol.

In the mid 70s, Kantner, Chaquico, Freiberg and the others formed "Jefferson Starship, Inc". Baldwin joins the band in 1982. He's maybe part of JS, Inc? I don't know.

In 1985 Kantner leaves, sues the band to try and stop them from using the name, and they sign what is known as "The 1985 Agreement" in which Kantner gets some cash, all parties agree to not use the name Jefferson Starship going forward, Jefferson Starship, Inc becomes Starship, Inc. and Slick and Thompson get rights to the name "Starship". Freiberg is fired from Starship in 1985 after becoming dissatisfied that he didn't play much of the keyboards on the first Starship album; Baldwin "resigns" in 1989 after badly beating up Mickey Thomas and putting him in the hospital and requiring surgery. Chaquico quits the band in 1990, effectively ending it.

In the early 90s, Kantner forms a band and tours under the name Jefferson Starship. Chaquico sues that he has violated the 1985 agreement and it is settled under what is called "The 1993 Agreement" which allows Kantner and only Kantner to use the name Jefferson Starship. The other signatories to the 1985 Agreement didn't take issue with Kantner using the name so they weren't part of that lawsuit.

In 2005 and 2008, respectively, Freiberg and Baldwin joined Kantner's Jefferson Starship.

Kantner dies in 2016. In 2017 Chaquico enters into talks about putting together a new version of Jefferson Starship with Freiberg and Baldwin; this doesn't work out. They put together a new band without him. Chaquico takes out ads calling them a "fake band" and sues to stop them from using the name citing that they are violating the 1985 Agreement that no one use the name going forward, that the 1993 Agreement was null-and-void after Kantner's death and, further, that they also relinquished any claims to the name when they were both dismissed in the 90s.

Freiberg's response was that he had been in the band from the beginning, played on every Jefferson Starship album, was part of the original Jefferson Starship, Inc, and that they were just continuing the new version of Jefferson Starship that Kantner formed so therefore the 1993 Agreement that Kantner signed was still in effect.

And now they've apparently settled this suit without giving any of the actual details of the settlement. My guess is they get to keep using Jefferson Starship and Chaquico (and probably Grace and Mickey and whoever else might have been a signatory to the 1985 Agreement) gets a small piece of the action? But it doesn't seem that anyone actually owned the rights to the name Jefferson Starship. There was only an agreement that no one would use it.

I also have no idea how any of this relates to all the Grunt Records stuff going to Rhino, if it does at all. That all seems to be a separate matter entirely.

Here's a link to the initial complaint filed by Chaquico in case anyone else is as nerdy about this stuff as I am :):

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Jefferson-Starship-Complaint.pdf

And the motion to dismiss:

https://justlawfulblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/chaquico-v-freiberg-n-d-cal-2017.pdf
 
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halbroome

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Interesting. While it doesn’t specifically say that Chaquico alone got the name in 1985, it does seem to imply that.

Would be interesting to know how he ended up with it and not any of the others!
My guess is that there are different settlements for the full name "Jefferson Airplane" (original members had to sign on for it to be used in concert), "Jefferson" by itself (which Paul owned at least until 1994, as Papa John told me), and that after Paul left the JS it became just Starship (implying he did own the "Jefferson" by itself!). With Grace out of the picture, some years later Paul went ahead with Jefferson Starship: the Next Generation (causing Jack Casady to eventually leave, I was told, as he objected to the continued use of "Jefferson" or something like that).

Chaquico and Frieberg were JS members (and Freiberg was fired upon suggestion by Grace, according to Tamarkin), so with Paul and Grace and David out of the picture, that would leave Chaquico as the sole owner. But you would have to go through mounds of court cases to know exactly what happened. . . .

edit: keywhiz did a lot of research, woo! Take that over my guesses here.
 
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keywhiz

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"Starship featuring Mickey Thomas" played a local festival here last May (2018). Judging by the band's name I have to think Mickey was the only original member. (I did not see the show.)
Yes, he's been doing that pretty much since Starship officially ended in 1991. Decent band and Mickey still has his pipes. I know a lot of people (especially hardcore Airplane and Jefferson Starship fans) don't think much of the Mickey Thomas version of the band, but got to give the guy credit for still being able to sing as he does in his late 60s.

 

keywhiz

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My guess is that there are different settlements for the full name "Jefferson Airplane" (original members had to sign on for it to be used in concert), "Jefferson" by itself (which Paul owned at least until 1994, as Papa John told me), and that after Paul left the JS it became just Starship (implying he did own the "Jefferson" by itself!). With Grace out of the picture, some years later Paul went ahead with Jefferson Starship: the Next Generation (causing Jack Casady to eventually leave, I was told, as he objected to the continued use of "Jefferson" or something like that).

Chaquico and Frieberg were JS members (and Freiberg was fired upon suggestion by Grace, according to Tamarkin), so with Paul and Grace and David out of the picture, that would leave Chaquico as the sole owner. But you would have to go through mounds of court cases to know exactly what happened. . . .

edit: keywhiz did a lot of research, woo! Take that over my guesses here.

And while I'm one who is reluctant to cast dispersions upon people I've never even met, after reading through all this stuff it might seem rather safe to say that Craig Chaquico seems to be a bit of a dick?
 
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