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Rhino Quadio Downloads

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fredblue

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Thanks to Quad Linda's tip off (Thank You QL!)
I just bought the Aretha Quadio, which is on special offer from Rhino Handmade's website until tomorrow, ($8.00 off! Pretty cool ah!).

Anyway, seeing the way they had preview clips on their site (for independent Front and Back channel clips of each song) together with a little speech bubble atop the previews about downloading digitally on iTunes.. it got me thinking....

Why don't Quadio just sell downloads of future Quad(io) releases?

What are your thoughts?

Would you buy transfers of quad albums in the form of downloads direct from Rhino?

I know I would! Over to you..
 

rtbluray

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Thanks to Quad Linda's tip off (Thank You QL!)
I just bought the Aretha Quadio, which is on special offer from Rhino Handmade's website until tomorrow, ($8.00 off! Pretty cool ah!).

Anyway, seeing the way they had preview clips on their site (for independent Front and Back channel clips of each song) together with a little speech bubble atop the previews about downloading digitally on iTunes.. it got me thinking....

Why don't Quadio just sell downloads of future Quad(io) releases?

What are your thoughts?

Would you buy transfers of quad albums in the form of downloads direct from Rhino?

I know I would! Over to you..
Too bad they weren't offering the Chicago Quadio for sale today... :(
 

neil wilkes

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Thanks to Quad Linda's tip off (Thank You QL!)
I just bought the Aretha Quadio, which is on special offer from Rhino Handmade's website until tomorrow, ($8.00 off! Pretty cool ah!).

Anyway, seeing the way they had preview clips on their site (for independent Front and Back channel clips of each song) together with a little speech bubble atop the previews about downloading digitally on iTunes.. it got me thinking....

Why don't Quadio just sell downloads of future Quad(io) releases?

What are your thoughts?

Would you buy transfers of quad albums in the form of downloads direct from Rhino?

I know I would! Over to you..
I would much, much rather have physical replicated media.
Hard Drives fail, downloads get corrupted, files get lost and download sellers go out of business - and what happens to my content if my drive fails, and they will notrenew the download link?
Physical media will last for a lifetime, properly looked after - written discs will fail within 5-10 years at best (I have so-called "100 year" CD-R here that are already unreadable because they were burned on a drive that is no longer here), and newer drives will simply not read the content. Likewise, even if I have all my audio on HDD, can I be sure the HDD will survive, and that future systems can access it - how many Mac users can still use FireWire or USB these days, for one and various interfaces have come & gone over the last 12 years to make it a very unsafe way to store my precious music collection.
Rhino need to stop being so cheap & paranoid - flat transfers cost them fuck all to author (or should do) to the point where a run of only 2,000 should make a profit - even if a small one, but a profit is a profit surely and isn't that what they are in business to do? Sell Records?
I have bought 2 downloads so far. One of which I can no longer get access to if I need to re-download it, and I have lost count of the download only software I have bought and regretted buying as the company either no longer exists or my link has "expired" after a pitiful 90 days. The labels are trying to make more money out of you without actually giving you pressed physical content that will survive - do not let them get away with this. Sure, backup to digital is good but here's a few thoughts.
I have here - and I am not even 20% of theway through - backups totalling 7 Terabytes of DVD, CD, DVDA etc. That's on 3 large drives. I need another 10 at least to complete the job, and should really do it all again to have double backups. Raid arrays also fail - I have seen these expensive NAS drives also fail, taking out 5 Tb of content at a stroke. Gone.
Then you need to spin them up every 6 months, ideally writing to & from to make sure the spindles do not freeze up (this also happens) and simply maintaining a large digital backup suddenly becomes a full time job. One that is not needed with pressed silver discs.

Rhino also need to stop being so paranopid about illegal downloads, and keep an eye open for them & take them down as they get put up. They also need to stop treating every download as a lost sale - this is unrealistic and has been discussed to death, so I will not reiterate here.
The labels are being lazy here, and because they keep sacking people who know their job & replacing them with accountants (who know nothing about selling music, treating every artist like a line in a supermarket instead of an investment) and dropping artists who do not make "sufficient profit to justify inventory" - translation:
They are making a profit, but we want more so are dropping them as we told our shareholders we would make more money this year, and we did not make as much as we hoped so it turns into a loss on paper. This is a true story too - from a real label. I will not name the names, but it is 100%true - heard at first hand by my own ears.

Will I buy a downloadable only version again?
I do not know - it is unlikely, to be honest.
 

fredblue

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Too bad they weren't offering the Chicago Quadio for sale today... :(
I ordered the Chicago Quadio the day it came out! I wasn't going to let that gem slip through my fingers!
The Aretha I was less thrilled about at the time, so just let it come and go.. "meh"..
 

fredblue

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I would much, much rather have physical replicated media.
Hard Drives fail, downloads get corrupted, files get lost and download sellers go out of business - and what happens to my content if my drive fails, and they will notrenew the download link?
Physical media will last for a lifetime, properly looked after - written discs will fail within 5-10 years at best (I have so-called "100 year" CD-R here that are already unreadable because they were burned on a drive that is no longer here), and newer drives will simply not read the content. Likewise, even if I have all my audio on HDD, can I be sure the HDD will survive, and that future systems can access it - how many Mac users can still use FireWire or USB these days, for one and various interfaces have come & gone over the last 12 years to make it a very unsafe way to store my precious music collection.
Rhino need to stop being so cheap & paranoid - flat transfers cost them fuck all to author (or should do) to the point where a run of only 2,000 should make a profit - even if a small one, but a profit is a profit surely and isn't that what they are in business to do? Sell Records?
I have bought 2 downloads so far. One of which I can no longer get access to if I need to re-download it, and I have lost count of the download only software I have bought and regretted buying as the company either no longer exists or my link has "expired" after a pitiful 90 days. The labels are trying to make more money out of you without actually giving you pressed physical content that will survive - do not let them get away with this. Sure, backup to digital is good but here's a few thoughts.
I have here - and I am not even 20% of theway through - backups totalling 7 Terabytes of DVD, CD, DVDA etc. That's on 3 large drives. I need another 10 at least to complete the job, and should really do it all again to have double backups. Raid arrays also fail - I have seen these expensive NAS drives also fail, taking out 5 Tb of content at a stroke. Gone.
Then you need to spin them up every 6 months, ideally writing to & from to make sure the spindles do not freeze up (this also happens) and simply maintaining a large digital backup suddenly becomes a full time job. One that is not needed with pressed silver discs.

Rhino also need to stop being so paranopid about illegal downloads, and keep an eye open for them & take them down as they get put up. They also need to stop treating every download as a lost sale - this is unrealistic and has been discussed to death, so I will not reiterate here.
The labels are being lazy here, and because they keep sacking people who know their job & replacing them with accountants (who know nothing about selling music, treating every artist like a line in a supermarket instead of an investment) and dropping artists who do not make "sufficient profit to justify inventory" - translation:
They are making a profit, but we want more so are dropping them as we told our shareholders we would make more money this year, and we did not make as much as we hoped so it turns into a loss on paper. This is a true story too - from a real label. I will not name the names, but it is 100%true - heard at first hand by my own ears.

Will I buy a downloadable only version again?
I do not know - it is unlikely, to be honest.
thank you for your very detailed, reasoned, passionate and informed argument against potential Quadio downloads.
a superb case you put forward here.

what occurs to me is, if such quad downloads were to be available from a service (like iTunes) where you have the opportunity to re-download tracks in the event of say a hard disk failure at home, or from a back up in a "Cloud" like environment, if this were a guaranteed back up feature of these downloads, would you be more inclined to buy them or would you still be put off?

also, if it does cost Rhino next to nothing to do short runs of flat transfers themselves, a la the Quadio "series".. why on earth did they stop so suddenly!?

Rhino must have made money on the CTA Quadio, no? If the Aretha quad were less successful, then Rhino could at least have given the format one more try to see if sales were content-dependent, as was the case for me, I just wasn't so interested in the Aretha quad as the Chicago.

now if some more Chiacago, or some Doobies, Doors, Eagles, Joni Mitchell original quad reissues on Quadio had come after CTA, I bet this is a conversation we wouldn't even be having now!!

I guess it all boils down to content being as key to the success of a release as anything.
It can't be any coincidence that the biggest-selling rock & pop artists and albums of all-time translated into most of the biggest-selling surround releases (PF's DSOTM, EJ's GYBR, Eagles HC, FM's Rumours, etc..).
 

DKA

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I buy more downloads than ever, but I definitely understand Neil's concern as to backing them up. I own too much physical media, though. It's time to make space for other things, and I can play a digital file just as easily as I can play a CD. I have piles of burned CDs and DVDs I've never filed away. Something has to give at some point but, yes, there's probably no cloud big enough to back up everything I own.

Agreed on the paranoia as to illegal downloading. A guy got tar and feathered on here upon being outed as to putting something up once when, really, he did it about five minutes before someone else would have anyway. I can find you the CTA Quadio in about ten different spots online right now, yet it still sold out. Being that concerned as to what is out there is not understanding the market. This is the world we currently live in, and there's not much anyone can do to stop it.
 

SMS

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I would much, much rather have physical replicated media.
Hard Drives fail, downloads get corrupted, files get lost and download sellers go out of business - and what happens to my content if my drive fails, and they will notrenew the download link?
I do agree that I would much rather have physical media. It is much nicer to have a quality package, artwork and liner notes than a download. BUT... I would rather have a quad/5.1 download than not have the music at all. If a download is the only way the record company can justify the release, then I'll accept it and buy the download.

I would burn the download to physical media (burn two copies and put one in my safe) and backup the original flac/wav. If I do that, I am pretty comfortable I'll never lose access to it.
 

fredblue

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I buy more downloads than ever, but I definitely understand Neil's concern as to backing them up. I own too much physical media, though. It's time to make space for other things, and I can play a digital file just as easily as I can play a CD. I have piles of burned CDs and DVDs I've never filed away. Something has to give at some point but, yes, there's probably no cloud big enough to back up everything I own.

Agreed on the paranoia as to illegal downloading. A guy got tar and feathered on here upon being outed as to putting something up once when, really, he did it about five minutes before someone else would have anyway. I can find you the CTA Quadio in about ten different spots online right now, yet it still sold out. Being that concerned as to what is out there is not understanding the market. This is the world we currently live in, and there's not much anyone can do to stop it.
totally agree, there's always been piracy, as long as there has been recorded music. it can never be stopped altogether, no matter what.

the record companies have tried so desparetly, coming up with encryption methods and working so hard to copy protect their output, high-res releases in particular, all in vain.

DVDA & SACD were both copy-able in their own workaround ways so what was the point of all the time and trouble that they went to in the first place?!

All that money, time and effort would have been better spent releasing more high-res surround product! The Resourceful out there will always crack these things anyway.. don't they learn?!?

Who hasn't downloaded illegally!?

Lots of people download a track from an upcoming album (or even the entire album) that has leaked online and then go onto buy that album when they potentially may not have done so.

In the case of hard to find or out of print SACDS/DVDA'S, many would have bought the real thing rather than downloaded Lossy DTS rips if they'd been available!

Likewise in the case of Quad mixes unreleased on modern formats, I'd argue most if not all would have bought those too if they'd been available.

When your hands are tied and you're forced to download because of the stupidity, paranoia and short-sightedness of the record labels themselves, how can you see it any other way than they're the only ones to blame in this ridiculous mess..!
 

fredblue

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so, 5.1 downloads..

- who else here is for it/against it? and why?

- how do we make this happen?

- who's in a position here to help? (i.e, talk to the record labels.)

- what do you think is the best way to go about it?

- who do you see in the music industry as best placed to sell 5.1 music downloads? (Apple? Amazon? Rhino? HD Tracks?)

- what format do you think 5.1 downloads should be in, if they emerge at all? (Flac, wav, DD, etc..?)
 

SMS

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- what format do you think 5.1 downloads should be in, if they emerge at all? (Flac, wav, DD, etc..?)
flac for sure. wav would work too, I guess, because it could always be flac encoded to save disk space and add tags.

- who do you see in the music industry as best placed to sell 5.1 music downloads? (Apple? Amazon? Rhino? HD Tracks?)
Not Apple I hope. What format would they use? They don't support flac at all. Apple lossless perhaps, but I've never heard of a 5.1 Apple Lossless file.

I'd be very happy if HD Tracks added surround titles. That would be my first choice, as they are already fairly well known amongst audiophiles. Rhino? Sure! Amazon would be fine too I suppose as it may reach a few more people.
 

fredblue

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flac for sure. wav would work too, I guess, because it could always be flac encoded to save disk space and add tags.



Not Apple I hope. What format would they use? They don't support flac at all. Apple lossless perhaps, but I've never heard of a 5.1 Apple Lossless file.

I'd be very happy if HD Tracks added surround titles. That would be my first choice, as they are already fairly well known amongst audiophiles. Rhino? Sure! Amazon would be fine too I suppose as it may reach a few more people.
there's some weird workaround in iTunes (that a QQ-er tipped me off about) as detailed by a site "surroundedbyus.com"
that allows playback of DTS 5.1 music files direct in iTunes if you rip your DTS CDs using the Apple Lossless encoder.

I couldn't get it to work.. But that doesn't mean it doesn't..!!!
 

kap'n krunch

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I'm a "physical" person myself (Thank you Olivia!)...downloads are for stuff that you really don't care much about...as it is, , as 0tto rightly pointed out, the masses (and I include myself) gobble up the DTS DVD-Vs...
 
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