Rolling Stones Goats Head Soup Deluxe Edition (with 5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes!)

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~dave~~wave~

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Doesn't this indicate that the 5.1 mix is indeed NOT the Atmos mix downmixed to 5.1 and certainly NOT TrueHD.

View attachment 56413
Not as it's extracted there.
That's ripper stuff. :eek:
That is not real when you spin discs.
What does Kraftwerk 3-D show when ripped?

This has been explained.
There is always a core Dolby AC-3.
But only the oldest farking antique blu ray player would ever try to output from that lossy file rather than use the Atmos, which it will sense as TrueHD 5.1.

All Dolby TrueHD-enabled Blu-ray Disc players are capable of decoding the Dolby TrueHD audiotrack to an arbitrary number of channels more suitable for player output. For example, all Dolby TrueHD-capable players can create a 2-channel (stereo-compatible) mix from a 6-channel source audiotrack.

The most popular Dolby TrueHD application is as a high definition audio codec for Blu-ray Disc, although early Blu-ray players did not support it. All current Blu-ray players support Dolby TrueHD decoding or bitstreaming. Starting in 2010, Dolby TrueHD steadily lost lossless audio market share to rival DTS-HD Master Audio.[2] Much of that share, however, returned as Dolby Atmos became more common on Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray; Atmos is commonly implemented on these discs through a TrueHD bitstream.
[3]

Audio encoded using Dolby TrueHD may be transported to A/V receivers in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support:[4][5]
  • Over 6 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
  • Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6 or 8-channel Linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
  • Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original Dolby TrueHD bitstream encapsulated in MAT[3] (Metadata-Enhanced Audio Transport) frames, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver. Bitstreaming is required for full Dolby Atmos playback.[3]
 
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EricKalet

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More clarity here even tho its Wikipedia:

Since Dolby TrueHD is an optional codec, a companion Dolby Digital bitstream (2.0 192 Kb/s or 5.1 448 Kb/s/640 Kb/s) must accompany the Dolby TrueHD bitstream on Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray Disc players consider this combination of two audio bitstreams as a single logical audio track, and a Blu-ray Disc player will automatically select the Dolby Digital or Dolby TrueHD bitstream depending on its decoding and/or bitstreaming capabilities.

All Dolby TrueHD-enabled Blu-ray Disc players are capable of decoding the Dolby TrueHD audiotrack to an arbitrary number of channels more suitable for player output. For example, all Dolby TrueHD-capable players can create a 2-channel (stereo-compatible) mix from a 6-channel source audiotrack.
 

EricKalet

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Yay! We've got this figured out now!!

Summary:
  1. Most Blu Ray players will play or digitally stream TrueHD 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos mix.
  2. Older players will sense the AC3 640kbps (assumption made by me - most of us probably do not have any of these vintage players).
  3. This release does not have the promised/advertised 5.1 DTS MA mix.
 

~dave~~wave~

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Yay! We've got this figured out now!!

Summary:
  1. Most Blu Ray players will play or digitally stream TrueHD 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos mix.
  2. Older players will sense the AC3 640kbps (assumption made by me - most of us probably do not have any of these vintage players).
  3. This release does not have the promised/advertised 5.1 DTS MA mix.
Agreed.
I would add:

4. Unless somebody produces scientific evidence to the contrary...
the lack of the advertised DTS MA mix doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the quality of 5.1 blu ray playback from Atmos.

Rippers are on their own, that's what they signed up for, and good luck to them. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

EricKalet

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Agreed.
I would add:

4. Unless somebody produces scientific evidence to the contrary...
the lack of the advertised DTS MA mix doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the quality of 5.1 blu ray playback from Atmos.

Rippers are on their own, that's what they signed up for, and good luck to them. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
I second that, I think that is precisely why the DTS MA mix is not on the disc.
 

himey

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Agreed.
I would add:

4. Unless somebody produces scientific evidence to the contrary...
the lack of the advertised DTS MA mix doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the quality of 5.1 blu ray playback from Atmos.

Rippers are on their own, that's what they signed up for, and good luck to them. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Have you compared the dedicated 5.1 on Abbey Road to reach these conclusions or are you speculating based on what you are reading about the format downmix capabilities?

I haven't done a proper comparison but I will, especially it someone starts a thread on the subject.

Two reasons why nobody said anything about the Kraftwerk mix. 1) It wasn't advertised as having a dedicated 5.1 mix. 2) Not as many people care about Kraftwerk (sadly). Bonus 3) The SQ is so good along with the mix...
 

himey

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I can say this I am certainly not investing in an Atmos system for this album........But will the advertised separate 5.1 mix be much different than what the atmos stream converts to?
Will? ...or would?

Do you have the Abbey Road disc to form your own judgment?
 

sjcorne

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Unless somebody produces scientific evidence to the contrary...
the lack of the advertised DTS MA mix doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the quality of 5.1 blu ray playback from Atmos.
Perhaps, but the uncertain aspect of this for me is that Atmos/7.1 downmix doesn't necessarily happen at the same spot in the signal chain for everyone. It seems like most folks here have an older AVR with no Atmos decoder and a 5.1 speaker setup. In that scenario, the downmixing can be done by Blu-Ray player (if set to send decoded PCM to the AVR) or by the AVR (if set to send undecoded bitstream to the receiver). Are those results identical? Another scenario could be a listener with an Atmos-compatible AVR, but only 5 speakers. Is decoded Atmos sent through only five channels the same as the 8-channel TrueHD audio sent though five channels? And is that also the same as the AC3 6-channel core audio?

I don't have the proper gear to make all those comparisons, so I can't say if it makes a difference or not - but it seems unlikely to me that all those extra variables in play would have no impact on what people are hearing. The inclusion of the DTS-HD stream would've guaranteed identical results for all listeners with standard 5.1 systems.

Some people like it...
I'm still happy with both the surround mix and fidelity on this one.
 

HomerJAU

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I’ve given Atmos 7.1.4, 7.1.2 and a TrueHD 7.1 channel test files to 3 QQers to test what they hear on 5.1 systems. This should provide scientific results on what is downmixed by AVRs.

EDIT: The test files have discrete channel sounds, played one channel at a time.

When played on your 5.1 system do you still hear all the 7.1 Core (bed) channels in 5.1 even though its a 7.1 mix? If the answer is YES then you are missing nothing from a 7.1 mix in your 5.1 system.

Can you hear the height speakers in 7.1.2 and 7.1.4? Same conclusion can be reached.

The results may depend on whether system AVR has an Atmos decoder. But these tests should give us real world results and stop the conjecture.

On my PC 5,1 system 7.1 FLAC is downmixed to 5.1 with all channels heard. The sides and rear channels get mixed to my sides.
 
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JonUrban

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Until somebody proves me wrong, that's my understanding.

Or from the rip @JonUrban listens to in his car.
He has a lot to answer for for starting us down this rabbit hole and pouring gasoline on a wisp of smoke. ;) :ROFLMAO: πŸ”₯πŸŽ†πŸš’πŸ‘¨β€πŸš’πŸ‘©β€πŸš’πŸ§―πŸ§―πŸ§―
Alright you. Better watch that or I may be forced to ban Snood! :eek:
 

~dave~~wave~

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I’ve given Atmos 7.1.4, 7.1.2 and a TrueHD 7.1 channel test files to 3 QQers to test what they hear on 5.1 systems. This should provide scientific results on what is downmixed by AVRs.

EDIT: The test files have discrete channel sounds, played one channel at a time.

When played on your 5.1 system do you still hear all the 7.1 Core (bed) channels in 5.1 even though its a 7.1 mix? If the answer is YES then you are missing nothing from a 7.1 mix in your 5.1 system.

Can you hear the height speakers in 7.1.2 and 7.1.4? Same conclusion can be reached.

The results may depend on whether system AVR has an Atmos decoder. But these tests should give us real world results and stop the conjecture.

On my PC 5,1 system 7.1 FLAC is downmixed to 5.1 with all channels heard. The sides and rear channels get mixed to my sides.
Thanks for agreeing this is worth investigating and investing the effort. (y)

It seems we can't assume going forward Atmos releases will include a separate 5.1 mix.
 

~dave~~wave~

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Have you compared the dedicated 5.1 on Abbey Road to reach these conclusions or are you speculating based on what you are reading about the format downmix capabilities?

I haven't done a proper comparison but I will, especially it someone starts a thread on the subject.

Two reasons why nobody said anything about the Kraftwerk mix. 1) It wasn't advertised as having a dedicated 5.1 mix. 2) Not as many people care about Kraftwerk (sadly). Bonus 3) The SQ is so good along with the mix...
I absolutely have compared the Abbey road mixes and found them identical to my elderly ears on my system.
Sony X800 (2017) HDMI to Yamaha RX-V375 (2014) AVR.
Average consumer-grade affordable home theater type stuff.

Look forward to your observations, if you agree that would be a fair and worthwhile comparison.
What do you think would be a good title for a new thread, if I started one, that would make it clear what we're discussing?

"DOES ABBEY ROAD PROVE ATMOS MIX FOR GOATS HEAD SOUP DECODES TO 5.1 CORRECTLY?"
"WHY THE HATE FOR GOATS HEAD SOUP?"
"IF YOU OWN ABBEY ROAD BLU RAY AND A 5.1 AVR, KINDLY STEP INSIDE..."
:unsure::unsure::unsure:
Open to suggestions.

Good observations on the Kraftwerk.
Wonder what percentage of folks voting 10 listened in 5.1 vs Atmos?
 
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