SACD on Nakamichi 7.2 Soundbar

[nikomen]

So I recently purchased a new Nakamichi 7.2 Soundbar with Atmos, DTS-X, Dolby Vision, and 4K HDR, 800 watts, etc. and will downmix to 5.1, all previous versions of Dolby as well as DTS. I purchased a Sony DVD Blu Ray player BDP-S3700 Region Free DVD/All Region Blu Ray player, that plays SACD's with Surround sound, but the soundbar says PCM as the input, so I'm assuming it is playing the CD layer of the SACD and then umpiring it to Dolby Surround. I contacted Nakamichi and they said that the sounbdbar, even if the blu ray player was playing the multichannel layer, it would say PCM because if the soundbar sees a DSD signal it will convert it to PCM. So my question here is: I have a number of Hybrid/Multichannel SACD's and I'd like to hear all the extra stuff in the multichannel layers on these discs, but can not invest another sound system in my house and need to stick to the soundbar in this relatively small room (14x14), should I spend the money for another Sony DVD player model X-700 region free, etc (only $299.00), that says it plays the multichannel signal layers, I'm assuming output to the HDMI outputs, of the soundbar is only going to convert it anyway to PCM and then give it a surround sound with it's Dolby Surround? I'd like to think that all the extra content that is sent from the DSD layer to be down mixed to PCM will still retain all of the extra data that is in the DSD stream and offer "More" content to be down mixed to PCM, or should I just let the original Sony player send the signal to the soundbar and deal with the ummixed "created 5.1 Dolby Surround that is played though the soundbar? Thoughts???

 

[HomerJAU]

This a pretty hard read. It needs paragraphs.

 

[slmccaul]

One of the first things you can try is go to the settings in your Sony Blu-Ray player and make sure the default layer it plays for SACD's is multi-channel SACD rather than CD or 2 channel SACD. You can verify this by looking at the output information while playing a SACD. Then work forward from there making sure your sound bar can accept and play this stream.

 

[ubertrout]

The Sony outputs SACD in PCM unless you set it to output in DSD. It's still playing in high-res/surround though if outputting PCM. Either way, don't waste your money on a new player and just check your settings.

Edit to add: are we sure the BDP-S3700 actually plays SACDs? I know the BDP-S6700 does.

 

[SACD_ripper]

Edit to add: are we sure the BDP-S3700 actually plays SACDs?

It does not, so in this case a different player would be required, right now the OP is playing the Redbook CD (stereo only) layer of a hybrid disc.

 

[nikomen]

It does not, so in this case a different player would be required, right now the OP is playing the Redbook CD (stereo only) layer of a hybrid disc.

Thanks for that reply. I originally ordered this Sony because it’s a region free DVD player, and I have a few DVD’s that are out of my region in the US. After I received it I thought maybe I could kill 2 birds with one stone and play the multichannel SACD’s that I had bought. In looking in the manual it does NOT mention it plays SACD’s.

So my original question stands. If I do buy the SONY X-700 which says it plays SACD’s, if it does output DSD, but Nakamichi says its Soundbar will convert it to PCM anyway, is it worth getting the new player? I’m wondering since the stream of data from the SACD’s multi channel output is a “bigger” source material that will get converted to PCM by the Soundbar, do you think the end result 5.1 will be better than if the source for the Soundbars conversion is just the Redbook CD?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

So I recently purchased a new Nakamichi 7.2 Soundbar with Atmos, DTS-X, Dolby Vision, and 4K HDR, 800 watts, etc. and will downmix to 5.1, all previous versions of Dolby as well as DTS. I purchased a Sony DVD Blu Ray player BDP-S3700 Region Free DVD/All Region Blu Ray player, that plays SACD's with Surround sound, but the soundbar says PCM as the input, so I'm assuming it is playing the CD layer of the SACD and then umpiring it to Dolby Surround. I contacted Nakamichi and they said that the sounbdbar, even if the blu ray player was playing the multichannel layer, it would say PCM because if the soundbar sees a DSD signal it will convert it to PCM. So my question here is: I have a number of Hybrid/Multichannel SACD's and I'd like to hear all the extra stuff in the multichannel layers on these discs, but can not invest another sound system in my house and need to stick to the soundbar in this relatively small room (14x14), should I spend the money for another Sony DVD player model X-700 region free, etc (only $299.00), that says it plays the multichannel signal layers, I'm assuming output to the HDMI outputs, of the soundbar is only going to convert it anyway to PCM and then give it a surround sound with it's Dolby Surround? I'd like to think that all the extra content that is sent from the DSD layer to be down mixed to PCM will still retain all of the extra data that is in the DSD stream and offer "More" content to be down mixed to PCM, or should I just let the original Sony player send the signal to the soundbar and deal with the ummixed "created 5.1 Dolby Surround that is played though the soundbar? Thoughts???

Agree with @HomerJAU . Do you not use paragraphs or punctuation in Virginia? Soundbars are the lowest common denominator of quality audio.

 

[nikomen]

The Sony outputs SACD in PCM unless you set it to output in DSD. It's still playing in high-res/surround though if outputting PCM. Either way, don't waste your money on a new player and just check your settings.

Edit to add: are we sure the BDP-S3700 actually plays SACDs? I know the BDP-S6700 does.

So I guess I am confused. I thought the only way to listen to high resolution music WITH surround sound on an SACD is if it’s a disc with a multichannel layer, and that that layer would be output as a DSD stream in 5.1. Is that not correct?

 

[ubertrout]

It does not, so in this case a different player would be required, right now the OP is playing the Redbook CD (stereo only) layer of a hybrid disc.

The OP should return the S3700 and get a S6700 for $30 difference or so. Problem solved.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Did I really just read SACD, Nakamichi, and Soundbar in the same sentence? I thought the day would never come!

Jokes aside, if you have a multichannel SACD, your player can play SACDs, and you're outputting multichannel from your player, you should be good.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Nikomen, Dolby Vision/HDR/HDR10/HDR10+ and UDH4K have nothing to do with the Nak soundbar......They would be functions of the 4K Sony Player....in conjunction with your 4K Flatscreen.

Best of luck with your new investment!

 

[SACD_ripper]

So I guess I am confused. I thought the only way to listen to high resolution music WITH surround sound on an SACD is if it’s a disc with a multichannel layer, and that that layer would be output as a DSD stream in 5.1. Is that not correct?

That is correct, currently with that S3700 you can't do that at all, because it won't read anything but the Redbook CD (stereo) layer of a hybrid disc.
The PCM conversion thing with surround is actually fairly common, there are plenty of AVRs that don't process DSD either, and instead convert everything to PCM. I wouldn't sweat that too terribly much.
A Sony Blu-ray player (such as the above mentioned S6700) which is SACD compatible will also convert the output to PCM automatically if in the HDMI handshake it does not detect downstream DSD compatibility.
I think in your questions you are combining two separate issues when trying to determine if there is any point or benefit. One is native DSD vs. PCM, and again, I wouldn't worry about that too much as it's more common than you might think, conversion to PCM isn't a disaster though perhaps it is suboptimal.
The second thing you are weaving into the above but is really a separate consideration is the SACD's MCH content itself, and whether or not that represents an improvement over compressed surround such as Dolby Digital, or DTS, and there I think playing the actual SACD MCH content is a definite improvement over lossy/compressed formats, even if transcoded to PCM.
Whether that holds true when played back through a soundbar as opposed to a true MCH setup? You be the judge.

 

[nikomen]

Thanks for the reply and I understand. I'm going to see if they will let me return the DVD player as on further investigation it does not play. I found another SONY that does play SACD's, but in it's manual it says that it does not play DVD-Audio discs. I was thinking of getting the Oppo BDP-83 since it seems to play them all. Thoughts about that player?

 

[CPR]

My Sony UBP-X1100ES, plays EVERYTHING.
Have a similar problem, with my Sonos Arc, which does NOT support DVD/A, SACD/DSD, or DTS/CD's
Sonos blames Sony; nonsense; they won't admit, it's their problem
Good luck

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thanks for the reply and I understand. I'm going to see if they will let me return the DVD player as on further investigation it does not play. I found another SONY that does play SACD's, but in it's manual it says that it does not play DVD-Audio discs. I was thinking of getting the Oppo BDP-83 since it seems to play them all. Thoughts about that player?

I have an Oppo BDP-83 SE. It does play all disks. It will output SACD as PCM. Its a good player, but its old in the tooth and may not get along with a handful of newer Blue-ray menu systems.

You will obviously be buying used. I am unsure what the service options are on such a dated piece of equipment.

 

[ubertrout]

Thanks for the reply and I understand. I'm going to see if they will let me return the DVD player as on further investigation it does not play. I found another SONY that does play SACD's, but in it's manual it says that it does not play DVD-Audio discs. I was thinking of getting the Oppo BDP-83 since it seems to play them all. Thoughts about that player?

If you want DVD-Audio just get the Sony UBP-X800. You'll get 4k disc and excellent file support in the deal. The Oppo BDP-83 is a solid unit but only relevant if you want analog audio out (which you don't) or want to play burned discs (not necessary since the Sony plays most multichannel file formats)

Note that the original X800 didn't support Dolby Vision for HDR, the X800M2 does. If you don't care about that you can get a refurb of the original for much cheaper.

 

[nikomen]

My Sony UBP-X1100ES, plays EVERYTHING.
Have a similar problem, with my Sonos Arc, which does NOT support DVD/A, SACD/DSD, or DTS/CD's
Sonos blames Sony; nonsense; they won't admit, it's their problem
Good luck

Sorry for that luck. My Nakamichi does support DTS and DVD/A, just not DSD streams without converting it to PCM. I've been reading this is even common for a lot of AVR's, so I can't get to spun up about it. I found a new Sony that plays all ZONE DVD's and Blu Ray, plays SACD and outputs DSD and plays and supports DVD-Audio discs. Just bought that one. Good luck my friend!

 

[nikomen]

If you want DVD-Audio just get the Sony UBP-X800. You'll get 4k disc and excellent file support in the deal. The Oppo BDP-83 is a solid unit but only relevant if you want analog audio out (which you don't) or want to play burned discs (not necessary since the Sony plays most multichannel file formats)

Note that the original X800 didn't support Dolby Vision for HDR, the X800M2 does. If you don't care about that you can get a refurb of the original for much cheaper.

If you want DVD-Audio just get the Sony UBP-X800. You'll get 4k disc and excellent file support in the deal. The Oppo BDP-83 is a solid unit but only relevant if you want analog audio out (which you don't) or want to play burned discs (not necessary since the Sony plays most multichannel file formats)

Note that the original X800 didn't support Dolby Vision for HDR, the X800M2 does. If you don't care about that you can get a refurb of the original for much cheaper.

Thanks! I actually just bought a NEW UBP-X800 that is Blu Ray/DVD any region ($397.00 Amazon) since the TV I have in my office is 1080P and I have 4 other TV's in the house that are all 4K. Really bought it to play music (Blu Ray/DVD-A, SACD and DTS for surround music. Don't plan on watching movies in here really. Thanks for much for the help!

 

[nikomen]

Did I really just read SACD, Nakamichi, and Soundbar in the same sentence? I thought the day would never come!

Jokes aside, if you have a multichannel SACD, your player can play SACDs, and you're outputting multichannel from your player, you should be good.

Did I really just read SACD, Nakamichi, and Soundbar in the same sentence? I thought the day would never come!

Jokes aside, if you have a multichannel SACD, your player can play SACDs, and you're outputting multichannel from your player, you should be good.

You're right, that is a group of strange bedfellows! I used to own a Nakamichi Dragon, but sold it years later and replaced it with an AIWA AD-F990 which I liked much better. This is my third sound system in my house in my small office, so getting a sound bar is a reasonable sacrifice to listen to Blu Ray music, Multichannel SACD's, DVD-Audio discs and DTS discs. I did replace the Sony I bought for one that will play and support them all. Thanks!

 

[Quadkid]

Thanks for the reply and I understand. I'm going to see if they will let me return the DVD player as on further investigation it does not play. I found another SONY that does play SACD's, but in it's manual it says that it does not play DVD-Audio discs. I was thinking of getting the Oppo BDP-83 since it seems to play them all. Thoughts about that player?

I have the Oppo 102 and it does the job!