SACD or DVD-Audio for the Doors Albums?

[4-earredwonder]

Lol, I had meant to address that to you. I meant it for anybody and everybody who read the post; guess I could have made it clearer.

To be honest I don't really understand the 24/96 etc. delineations; I'm not sure what they represent or which is better? I don't mean between the Doors albums, I mean just the description itself regardless album or artist.

I will do. I'm looking forward to listening to it.

I like listening to stereo with my surround system too as I find it kind of makes for a bigger and more stable sound stage, not just because of the positioning but because it spreads the load across multiple speakers so I can get more volume without pushing my modest economy speakers past their optimum.

If you can readily hear the difference between 24/96 and 24/48 ..... you get a medal. My pre/pro actually upsamples 24/48 to 24/96. To me the magic # is 24 bit .... as it does surpass 16 bit by a miracle mile!

 

[Rango]

If you can readily hear the difference between 24/96 and 24/48 ..... you get a medal. My pre/pro actually upsamples 24/48 to 24/96. To me the magic # is 24 bit .... as it does surpass 16 bit by a miracle mile!

Yeah, I was looking at flac bit depth? I wanted to get all of my favourite Ozrics tracks onto a single USB to shuffle play but was having trouble finding something that would play FLAC, I was wondering if MP3 would sound as good if it had a high enough bit depth (Is that the right term? Not sure).

Was basically thinking of ripping my favourite tracks so that I can get a continuous soundscape for background music but don't have a phone that reads FLAC and finding a dedicated flac player was trickier than I thought it would be.

Not sure if that's a topic that's allowed on the forum?

But yeah, I think 24bit is pretty much the point at which stuff is more or less lossless quality?

But my knowledge in this area is extremely limited.

 

[ubertrout]

To be honest, I've no idea. I don't really have a good overview of the technology, I was just going by the article I linked to. The Sony AVR looks good to me because it's branded with the High Definition Audio badge and I'm tempted to assume it 'surely has to be optimised by now', but maybe that's just me being naive.

I guess unless they can use digital technology to separate the sounds of the different instruments and extrapolate from them to fill in the missing parts of each signal, then they're more or less stuck with the fused together instrumental parts. I'm guessing they don't have the studio masters for each instrument otherwise it would probably be a simpler job just to re-arrange it all into different channels.

I'd like to think it would be possible to dismantle and renovate a piece of music for which there are no master tapes, similar to how you can restore or repair a painting by reproducing the texture of the brush strokes, but maybe that kind of technology is still a ways off.

If someone could create an authentic sounding Jim Morrison vocaloid and use similar technology to recreate the sound of each of the instruments, then a "true" 4.1 surround of the Doors debut album might actually be possible...

...who knows, in fifty years time it might be possible to download an app that could do it for you automatically. One can hope I guess.

The "Hi Res Audio" badge isn't terribly meaningful, but the Sony STR-DN1080 is in fact a very good AVR for the money if you're interested in surround music.

Unfortunately, for the Doors' first album they only used tape with four tracks, so things are effectively permanently fused together on those four tracks. Bit of shame, and I don't think sonic trickery can really pull them apart. But the surround mix does open up the songs a bit to my mind. I need to relisten but I don't recall them being just stereo.

 

[edisonbaggins]

It's the multi tracks that are in bad shape, not the masters (used for remastering and such).

Yeah, remasters seek to deliver "better" sound for an existing issued mix down. Like in the case of old school CDs, which might not have had the best converters initially.
Usually the original, stereo, mono, quad or even 5.1, is reissued. Another example is when the mix down is transferred to a different medium, like Blu-ray, instead of the original SACD. Doors Best of 4.0 comes to mind.

 

[bmoura]

Dolby Digital DD was the 1st big improvement over previous audio sound, Dolby DTS Dolby Theatre Surround usually Trump's DD again little more kick and clarity. Than again there have been some recent releases in just the lesser DD, but anything in surround beats stereo.

Since Dolby Digital uses lossy processing, I wouldn't call that a "big improvement in sound".
But it did fit multichannel audio on to laserdiscs and DVDs. So it was useful in that sense.

 

[bmoura]

Like in the case of old school CDs, which might not have had the best converters initially.

You are also getting higher resolution with SACDs, BluRay, DVD Audio and Digital Downloads.

1. CDs are limited to 16 bit, 44.1 kHz PCM audio.
2. BluRay, DVD-Audio and PCM Downloads (WAV and FLAC) can provide 24 bit, 96 kHz and 24 bit, 192 kHz PCM audio.
3. SACDs offer 2.8 MHz DSD audio (aka "DSD 64" or 64 times the CD bit rate)
4. DSD Digital Downloads offer 2.8 MHz, 5.6 MHz or 11.2 MHz DSD audio (or 64, 128 or 256 times the CD bit rate).

So, even with better converters (early CDs sometimes only offered 14 bit resolution vs 16 bit resolution in the CD specification) , CDs are still limited to standard resolution (aka 16 bit, 44.1 kHz) audio.
It's a limitation of the CD disc format.

 

[salsdali]

I have the Perception Box. I have never heard the SACD's. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the SACD's don't have the Bonus Tracks (in 5.1) that the DVD-A's have (which was always the potential beauty of DVD-A vs SACD)

If this is the case then the DVD-A's from Perception wins Hands Down.

Bonus Tracks
DVD1-12	Moonlight Drive (Ver.1)	2:42
DVD1-13	Moonlight Drive (Ver.2)	2:32
DVD1-14	Indian Summer (8/18/66 Vocal)

Bonus Tracks
DVD2-11	People Are Strange (False Starts & Dialogue)	1:58
DVD2-12	Love Me Two Times (Take 3)

Bonus Tracks
DVD3-12	Albinoni's Adagio In G Minor	4:32
DVD3-13	Not To Touch The Earth (Dialogue)	0:43
DVD3-14	Not To Touch The Earth (Take 1)	4:00
DVD3-15	Not To Touch The Earth (Take 2)	4:18
DVD3-16	Celebration Of The Lizard (An Experiment/Work In Progress)

Bonus Tracks
DVD4-10	Who Scared You	3:57
DVD4-11	Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 1)	2:29
DVD4-12	Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 2)	3:04
DVD4-13	Push Push	6:06
DVD4-14	Touch Me (Dialogue)	0:29
DVD4-15	Touch Me (Take 3)

Bonus Tracks
DVD5-12	Talking Blues	0:58
DVD5-13	Roadhouse Blues (11/4/69, Takes 1-3)	8:48
DVD5-14	Roadhouse Blues (11/4/69, Take 6)	9:27
DVD5-15	Carol (11/4/69)	0:56
DVD5-16	Roadhouse Blues (11/5/69, Take 1)	4:32
DVD5-17	Money Beats Soul (11/5/69)	1:05
DVD5-18	Roadhouse Blues (11/5/69, Takes 13-15)	6:21
DVD5-19	Peace Frog (False Starts & Dialogue)	2:00
DVD5-20	The Spy (Version 2)	3:48
DVD5-21	Queen of the Highway (Jazz Version)

Bonus Tracks
DVD6-11	Orange County Suite	5:45
DVD6-12	(You Need Meat) Don't Go No Further

My Favorite Bonus tracks:

DVD1-14

Indian Summer (8/18/66 Vocal)

DVD1-12	Moonlight Drive (Ver.1)	2:42
DVD1-13	Moonlight Drive (Ver.2)

DVD4-10

Who Scared You

DVD3-16

Celebration Of The Lizard (An Experiment/Work In Progress)

DVD6-11

Orange County Suite

DVD4-12

Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 2)

 

[GOS]

I have the Perception Box. I have never heard the SACD's. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the SACD's don't have the Bonus Tracks (in 5.1) that the DVD-A's have (which was always the potential beauty of DVD-A vs SACD)

If this is the case then the DVD-A's from Perception wins Hands Down.

Bonus Tracks
DVD1-12	Moonlight Drive (Ver.1)	2:42
DVD1-13	Moonlight Drive (Ver.2)	2:32
DVD1-14	Indian Summer (8/18/66 Vocal)

Bonus Tracks
DVD2-11	People Are Strange (False Starts & Dialogue)	1:58
DVD2-12	Love Me Two Times (Take 3)

Bonus Tracks
DVD3-12	Albinoni's Adagio In G Minor	4:32
DVD3-13	Not To Touch The Earth (Dialogue)	0:43
DVD3-14	Not To Touch The Earth (Take 1)	4:00
DVD3-15	Not To Touch The Earth (Take 2)	4:18
DVD3-16	Celebration Of The Lizard (An Experiment/Work In Progress)

Bonus Tracks
DVD4-10	Who Scared You	3:57
DVD4-11	Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 1)	2:29
DVD4-12	Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 2)	3:04
DVD4-13	Push Push	6:06
DVD4-14	Touch Me (Dialogue)	0:29
DVD4-15	Touch Me (Take 3)

Bonus Tracks
DVD5-12	Talking Blues	0:58
DVD5-13	Roadhouse Blues (11/4/69, Takes 1-3)	8:48
DVD5-14	Roadhouse Blues (11/4/69, Take 6)	9:27
DVD5-15	Carol (11/4/69)	0:56
DVD5-16	Roadhouse Blues (11/5/69, Take 1)	4:32
DVD5-17	Money Beats Soul (11/5/69)	1:05
DVD5-18	Roadhouse Blues (11/5/69, Takes 13-15)	6:21
DVD5-19	Peace Frog (False Starts & Dialogue)	2:00
DVD5-20	The Spy (Version 2)	3:48
DVD5-21	Queen of the Highway (Jazz Version)

Bonus Tracks
DVD6-11	Orange County Suite	5:45
DVD6-12	(You Need Meat) Don't Go No Further

My Favorite Bonus tracks:

DVD1-14

Indian Summer (8/18/66 Vocal)

DVD1-12	Moonlight Drive (Ver.1)	2:42
DVD1-13	Moonlight Drive (Ver.2)

DVD4-10

Who Scared You

DVD3-16

Celebration Of The Lizard (An Experiment/Work In Progress)

DVD6-11

Orange County Suite

DVD4-12

Whiskey, Mystics And Men (Version 2)

That's a great point! I too own the Perception box....I bought it a couple years ago on ebay for $65 if I recall. It's MINT!
I also own all the other discs being discussed. I don't say it much on this forum...but the Doors are in my top 5 all time favorite bands, so I will cling to all these as I can't get enough of the Doors.

 

[Rango]

OMG, not trying to be contrary (god knows I don't have to try) but the Doors CD & Blu-Ray singles arrived today and, I've never really liked Light my Fire but...I just listened to the full length, high-def, quad remaster...and now it's my favourite Doors track...it's *so* epic!!

Can't wait for the Doors DVD-A's to arrive now.

 

[edisonbaggins]

There is a guy on the Life in Surround Facebook page claiming that the SACDs have a different "original" mix (which he prefers). Maybe he means the stereo?
I believe the DVD-As have a stereo remix, right?

 

[Rango]

There is a guy on the Life in Surround Facebook page claiming that the SACDs have a different "original" mix (which he prefers). Maybe he means the stereo?
I believe the DVD-As have a stereo remix, right?

No idea, I was hoping someone would answer that question, as I'm still torn between the SACD & DVD-A for their first (self-titled) The Doors album.

Also, I got a chance to listen to the DVD-A's today and I'm not sure but I think I prefer the Riders on the Storm on L.A. Woman: It de-emphasises the whispering that's really loud on the rear left in the quad mix. But it's a matter of taste so I guess pointless arguing over it. I'd have to give the quad mix another listen before I could say for certain.

 

[edisonbaggins]

There's an entire Analog Productions SACD set for The Doors, which features multichannel. So, I'm super-confused. I assume it's the same multichannel mix as the DVD-As though.
But maybe the stereo is different? Remix on the DVD-As, but original mix on the SACDs?!

 

[Rango]

There's an entire Analog Productions SACD set for The Doors, which features multichannel. So, I'm super-confused. I assume it's the same multichannel mix as the DVD-As though.
But maybe the stereo is different? Remix on the DVD-As, but original mix on the SACDs?!

Again; not the one to ask (I don't know), but up until now people have been really vocal about the different discs so, hopefully, the answers might be forthcoming?

 

[salsdali]

There's an entire Analog Productions SACD set for The Doors, which features multichannel. So, I'm super-confused. I assume it's the same multichannel mix as the DVD-As though.
But maybe the stereo is different? Remix on the DVD-As, but original mix on the SACDs?!

interesting

 

[petrimyllyla]

The "Hi Res Audio" badge isn't terribly meaningful, but the Sony STR-DN1080 is in fact a very good AVR for the money if you're interested in surround music.

Unfortunately, for the Doors' first album they only used tape with four tracks, so things are effectively permanently fused together on those four tracks. Bit of shame, and I don't think sonic trickery can really pull them apart. But the surround mix does open up the songs a bit to my mind. I need to relisten but I don't recall them being just stereo.

I have been quite a happy with 2009 mono-LP. Feel its better than stereo and equal to SACD.

 

[ubertrout]

There's an entire Analog Productions SACD set for The Doors, which features multichannel. So, I'm super-confused. I assume it's the same multichannel mix as the DVD-As though.
But maybe the stereo is different? Remix on the DVD-As, but original mix on the SACDs?!

Old thread brought back to life! Anyhow, the MCH mix on the SACDs is just the Perception mix without any changes, it was added as a bonus. Only the stereo mix is redone afaik.