SACD or DVD-Audio for the Doors Albums?

[Rango]

The Sony STR-DN1080 receiver is a good one, especially for the money, and it has a lot of features generally only seen in higher-priced units (like native DSD decoding for SACDs). It pairs really well with the Sony UBP-X800, which you can get refurb for $100 and change, and you'll be able to play anything with that combo.

Massdrop was selling the STR-DN1080 for $300, but the deal isn't currently live.

Thanks for responding. I misread this hi-fiworld.co.uk article:

"The TX-NR609 measured very well in all areas, although performance with SACD was disappointing. It plays the DSD layer but with CD quality."
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/av-receivers/39-av-reviews/270-onkyo-tx-nr609.html?start=3

...I thought it was DVD-Audio that my Onkyo wasn't decoding properly but I misread the article.

I'm guessing the the STR-DN1080 has that covered by now (or hopefully still has that covered for both formats this far out from the demise of DVD-A), but as I say that's still a guess on my part as I don't know enough about the technology or that particular AVR to know.

As for massdrop, I'm in the U.K. so I don't think I could make use of it. :/

I have already picked up a UBP-X800. I read that they have a higher than average failure rate, so I bought it new from a specialist audio equipment franchise that still has brick and mortar outlets and paid another £30 on top for their special 6 year coverage.

I'd have to disagree with that...

To each his own...

Also, you can get the Perception box for under $100 used. I'd strongly recommend that route instead of getting a few of the SACDs.

I was originally intending to pick up the Perceptions box set and was thinking I might just keep the discs I wanted and put the others on eBay. Also was thinking I might buy the regular Doors CDs just for the cases so that I could replace the CD's with the DVD-A's for storage with my other discs.

In the end I just opted to buy the DVD-A/CD combo digipacks for Waiting for the Sun, L.A. Woman and Morrison Hotel and also bought the Rhino 2017 Singles Blu-Ray for the tracks I like from Strange Days.

Not sure what to do about their first, self-titled, album. Does the 5.1 add nothing to it? Wondering if it's worth picking up the DVD-A or to just pick up the SACD for the stereo remix?

 

[MrSmithers]

Hi Rango,

Cool stuff, that’s a great start! I have the box set and Greatest Hits Quads. I like both... Morrison Hotel is a blast and L.A Woman! With the quad it’s much better on the Blu Ray then the SACD as the chaps have stated. The SACD sounds a bit tinny to me? Weird...

I think you have to be a wee bit careful on your speaker placement with the Quad (well all quad really, but particularly this set) as JM sounds quite freaky on Riders if you’re too close to the rears... Good job the live version of ‘The End’ isn’t on there if entertaining family?!

I have the same Sony receiver and it works fine with most stuff you chuck at it. It’s been good for me... Of course there’s always more that you want but it does a really good job for the price...

Glad multichannel has lit your fire there’s no going back now. You’ll find a lot of other good recommendations in the polls, just be prepared to hunt a little on eBay and Discogs... And cry a little when you see some of the prices!

Cheers...

 

[Rango]

Hi Rango,

Cool stuff, that’s a great start! I have the box set and Greatest Hits Quads. I like both... Morrison Hotel is a blast and L.A Woman! With the quad it’s much better on the Blu Ray then the SACD as the chaps have stated. The SACD sounds a bit tinny to me? Weird...

I think you have to be a wee bit careful on your speaker placement with the Quad (well all quad really, but particularly this set) as JM sounds quite freaky on Riders if you’re too close to the rears... Good job the live version of ‘The End’ isn’t on there if entertaining family?!

I have the same Sony receiver and it works fine with most stuff you chuck at it. It’s been good for me... Of course there’s always more that you want but it does a really good job for the price...

Glad multichannel has lit your fire there’s no going back now. You’ll find a lot of other good recommendations in the polls, just be prepared to hunt a little on eBay and Discogs... And cry a little when you see some of the prices!

Cheers...

Thanks, and yes, I put on the Beatles Love 5.1 DVD-Audio, just to test a 5.1 setup I've had sitting on a shelf for a couple of years, and even though I've never really been a Beatles fan, it absolutely blew me away. I literally put it on just to test the speakers; I thought I'd be there for a minute tops and I was still there an hour later. As soon as the album finished I was searching eBay for DVD-A. I had no idea how good it was.

Right now my setup's pretty modest. I've got an older Onkyo sytem that was lauded for it's excellent value for money; later it turned out they had a bad board and were more or less certain to fail (the one I have I bought second hand, refurbished with the new updated board) and my surround satellites were likewise heralded for their performance per £ ratio, but at this point I think both the speakers and the AVR really need upgrading. I recently bought a budget all in one valve-amp stereo and replaced the speakers with Dali Specktor 2's so I'm thinking of purchasing another pair along with a centre speaker to complete the setup. Although I do want to test out the Elac Debut B6.2's before committing to the purchase. Following that, an AVR upgrade to the Sony...

...but that's all on a back burner now until I've got the SACD's and DVD-A's that I at least know that I'm going to definitely want.

But yeah, lots of mixed feelings: somewhere in limbo between elation (at having found the medium) and horror (at how much I'm going to have to spend on it).

I think I've pretty much got all of my favourite Doors tracks covered, just not sure if I should pick up a SACD of their first album for the new stereo mix, or try to track down a DVD-A for the surround, even though I'm told the surround 5.1 mix on the first album isn't good (nothing on the rear speakers but reverb?). I'm leaning towards the SACD but might need to hear both before I make a final decision.

 

[CPR]

I have the DVD/A version of Perception; was always annoyed, that disc 1; (The Doors), my all time favorite of theirs, was NOT in 5.1; so annoying
Anyway, are any of the newer versions, of that CD in 5.1?

 

[ubertrout]

I have the DVD/A version of Perception; was always annoyed, that disc 1; (The Doors), my all time favorite of theirs, was NOT in 5.1; so annoying
Anyway, are any of the newer versions, of that CD in 5.1?

The DVD-Audio is in 5.1, mostly to the extent possible. There's only so much you can do with a 4-track recording. The Quad mix of the "hits" from that album is a bit more aggressive and is worth having, but in the end the problem is the source material.

 

[ubertrout]

Thanks for responding. I misread this hi-fiworld.co.uk article:



...I thought it was DVD-Audio that my Onkyo wasn't decoding properly but I misread the article.

I'm guessing the the STR-DN1080 has that covered by now (or hopefully still has that covered for both formats this far out from the demise of DVD-A), but as I say that's still a guess on my part as I don't know enough about the technology or that particular AVR to know.

As for massdrop, I'm in the U.K. so I don't think I could make use of it. :/

I have already picked up a UBP-X800. I read that they have a higher than average failure rate, so I bought it new from a specialist audio equipment franchise that still has brick and mortar outlets and paid another £30 on top for their special 6 year coverage.


I was originally intending to pick up the Perceptions box set and was thinking I might just keep the discs I wanted and put the others on eBay. Also was thinking I might buy the regular Doors CDs just for the cases so that I could replace the CD's with the DVD-A's for storage with my other discs.

In the end I just opted to buy the DVD-A/CD combo digipacks for Waiting for the Sun, L.A. Woman and Morrison Hotel and also bought the Rhino 2017 Singles Blu-Ray for the tracks I like from Strange Days.

Not sure what to do about their first, self-titled, album. Does the 5.1 add nothing to it? Wondering if it's worth picking up the DVD-A or to just pick up the SACD for the stereo remix?

All AVRs that support HDMI 1.1 and later (so everything from the past 10-15 years) should play DVD-Audio discs properly. Unlike SACDs the audio produced by the DVD-Audio player is standard PCM audio.

 

[CPR]

The DVD-Audio is in 5.1, mostly to the extent possible. There's only so much you can do with a 4-track recording. The Quad mix of the "hits" from that album is a bit more aggressive and is worth having, but in the end the problem is the source material.

I've listened to it dozens of times, in my Acura ELS/5.1/Surround, & my home theatre; Unless I'm deaf, it's 2 channel; absolutely, no Surround at all. Very similar to "Townsends, Who Came 1st, & Neil Young's On the Beach; 2 channel Hi-Rez STEREO

 

[sjcorne]

Unless I'm deaf, it's 2 channel; absolutely, no Surround at all.

You’re right about the lack of rear channel action, but it’s certainly not “2-channel”. The center channel is highly active throughout, carrying the lead vocal and some instrumental highlights (the guitar solo in "Back Door Man", for instance).

I believe I also posted this in the Perception poll thread, but it's an interesting read.
https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...botnick-lights-doors-51-and-hi-res-audio-fire

 

[Rango]

All AVRs that support HDMI 1.1 and later (so everything from the past 10-15 years) should play DVD-Audio discs properly. Unlike SACDs the audio produced by the DVD-Audio player is standard PCM audio.

To be honest, I've no idea. I don't really have a good overview of the technology, I was just going by the article I linked to. The Sony AVR looks good to me because it's branded with the High Definition Audio badge and I'm tempted to assume it 'surely has to be optimised by now', but maybe that's just me being naive.

The DVD-Audio is in 5.1, mostly to the extent possible. There's only so much you can do with a 4-track recording. The Quad mix of the "hits" from that album is a bit more aggressive and is worth having, but in the end the problem is the source material.

I guess unless they can use digital technology to separate the sounds of the different instruments and extrapolate from them to fill in the missing parts of each signal, then they're more or less stuck with the fused together instrumental parts. I'm guessing they don't have the studio masters for each instrument otherwise it would probably be a simpler job just to re-arrange it all into different channels.

I'd like to think it would be possible to dismantle and renovate a piece of music for which there are no master tapes, similar to how you can restore or repair a painting by reproducing the texture of the brush strokes, but maybe that kind of technology is still a ways off.

If someone could create an authentic sounding Jim Morrison vocaloid and use similar technology to recreate the sound of each of the instruments, then a "true" 4.1 surround of the Doors debut album might actually be possible...

...who knows, in fifty years time it might be possible to download an app that could do it for you automatically. One can hope I guess.

 

[4-earredwonder]

There was also some chatter that Rhino/Warner's original 2000 MLP DVD~A 5.1 of L.A. Woman was somewhat better than that contained in the Perception box set. Since I have both, I will have to do my OWN comparison.

 

[sjcorne]

There was also some chatter that Rhino/Warner's original MLP DVD~A 5.1 of L.A. Woman was somewhat better than that contained in the Perception box set. Since I have both, I will have to do my OWN comparison.

Interesting, I’ve never heard that before. I have both as well, and the only difference I recall is the menus. The mix is definitely the same.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Interesting, I’ve never heard that before. I have both as well, and the only difference I recall is the menus. The mix is definitely the same.

Since they were essentially BOTH remixed by Bruce Botnick ..... I've also questioned that as well. I have the original 2000 Elektra remix before me so I suppose I have some 'homework' to do [yeech!]

 

[Rango]

Since they were essentially BOTH remixed by Bruce Botnick ..... I've also questioned that as well. I have the original 2000 Elektra remix before me so I suppose I have some 'homework' to do [yeech!]

Let us know what you find?

Edit: ...actually, not sure if that's a good idea; it feels a bit like pouring fuel on smoulderings (really didn't want to start an argument)...

..."Your ego is not your amigo."

 

[4-earredwonder]

Let us know what you find?

Edit: ...actually, not sure if that's a good idea; it feels a bit like pouring fuel on smoulderings (really didn't want to start an argument)...

..."Your ego is not your amigo."

Other than the 2000 edition was mastered at 24/96 and the Perception box edition was 24/48 ... there is really NO difference.....

Sincerely,

Your ego centric amigo

 

[sjcorne]

Other than the 2000 edition was mastered at 24/96 and the Perception box edition was 24/48 ... there is really NO difference.....

Incorrect. Both are 24/96.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Incorrect. Both are 24/96.

So spank me!

 

[sjcorne]

If someone could create an authentic sounding Jim Morrison vocaloid and use similar technology to recreate the sound of each of the instruments, then a "true" 4.1 surround of the Doors debut album might actually be possible..

The songs from the first album on the Best Of quad mix are suprisingly convincing. I’m not entirely sure what they did, but it sounds like “double stereo” (the same instruments spread front and rear) with the vocals only in the front. Let us know what you think when you get it.

 

[MrSmithers]

So spank me!

 

[Rango]

Other than the 2000 edition was mastered at 24/96 and the Perception box edition was 24/48 ... there is really NO difference.....

Sincerely,

Your ego centric amigo

Lol, I had meant to address that to you. I meant it for anybody and everybody who read the post; guess I could have made it clearer.

To be honest I don't really understand the 24/96 etc. delineations; I'm not sure what they represent or which is better? I don't mean between the Doors albums, I mean just the description itself regardless of album or artist.

The songs from the first album on the Best Of quad mix are suprisingly convincing. I’m not entirely sure what they did, but it sounds like “double stereo” (the same instruments spread front and rear) with the vocals only in the front. Let us know what you think when you get it.

I will do. I'm really looking forward to listening to it.

I like listening to stereo with my surround system too as I find it kind of makes for a bigger and more stable sound stage, not just because of the positioning but because it spreads the load across multiple speakers so I can get more volume without pushing my modest economy speakers past their optimum.

 

[4-earredwonder]

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