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SACD to Creative Labs DTS-610 out = DTS disc?

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timbre4

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Is this even plausible? The DTS-610 is advertised as accepting 6 analog inputs and encoding to DTS for receivers that lack 6 ch input.

Could a program like Sound Forge or Vegas (for example) keep up with recording that stream of data and then used to make a DTS disc?

:smokin
 

timbre4

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So NOBODY has tried this or even picked up on this box? Seems odd; okay I'll buy and see what the process turns out to be.
 

quadtrade

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There is a thread on this somewhere, it pumps out a dts encoded signal, which can be recorded on a cd, and played back too!
 

neil wilkes

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timbre4 said:
Is this even plausible? The DTS-610 is advertised as accepting 6 analog inputs and encoding to DTS for receivers that lack 6 ch input.

Could a program like Sound Forge or Vegas (for example) keep up with recording that stream of data and then used to make a DTS disc?

:smokin
Soundforge probably not - it's a stereo application not multichannel.
But for Vegas, Nuendo, Cubase, Sonar - all you will be doing is streaming in 6 channels at whatever rate you feed it.
24/96 x 6 channels is simple, as long as your computer has 12 inputs available via lightpipe, or 6 analogue ones at 24/96 source.

Not at all sure how you'd hook it up though, if it's squirting a DTS stream out of the other end for playback when hooked up to an amplifier with DTS decoders & digital inputs.
If you can hook up to a computer anyway, you'll be better off recording in the streams yourself - and running an analyzer to see where the ultrasonic crap starts appearing.
On some discs (Heathen, Reality) there is a sharp dropoff to almost noise floor at 23KHz from the SACD, followed by a rapid increase in ultrasonic noise up to the peak of around -18dB in level at 50KHz.
On other discs, there is no rolloff on the high end, just a gradual drop & it seems to almost crossfade into the ultrasonic noise.
(I have images showing this clearly if it would help, Tad. Just email me for examples).
Recording in manually means you can get rid of the crap.
 

timbre4

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I seem to have generated some interest, thanks!

I'm thinking that the unit handles the basic encoding task and it could go as simply as this:

1) SACD player - 6 analog outs to DTS-610 inputs
2) DTS-610 digital coax output to Delta 1010LT coax digital input
3) Sound Forge set to record from coax input
4) Save the file and burn a DTS disc

Problem may be settings: 24 bit/96k? (or is it dumbed down to 16/44.1K?)

:smokin
 

timbre4

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By jove I'm going ahead with this idea. There were none of these around recently, could no longer find on Creative's site. Got an eBay Search msg today so I'll take the plunge. :smokin: (and report of course)
 

Chris Gerhard

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This might be something worth doing with my Crest crackers which have been predicted to fly apart at some unknown future date. A DTS CD would be better than nothing. I believe some here are able to make DVD-A backups from the analog source SACD 5.1 output which is probably even better. I guess I will want to balance cost of the card and media with ease of making the disc and audio quality before preceding one way or the other. I will be interested in your findings.

Chris
 

winopener

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Be aware of a very nasty Creative habits: they do sample *always* at 48K, so the Creative box will spit out a 48K dts file ready for be passed thru any digital port... but NOT on a DTS CD, which requires the sample rate of 44100.
The only option left with the creative box is to make a dvd-video with the DTS audio track at 48K.
 

timbre4

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I appreciate the additional info.

My thought is the DTS bitstream coming out of this 610 box may be 48K, but I'll record that stream into a 48K Sound Forge file and save it as such. Then open it and hit resample to change it to 44.1K. Save it and make DTS disc from that.

Can I not do this?
 

rustyandi

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I appreciate the additional info.

My thought is the DTS bitstream coming out of this 610 box may be 48K, but I'll record that stream into a 48K Sound Forge file and save it as such. Then open it and hit resample to change it to 44.1K. Save it and make DTS disc from that.

Can I not do this?
I don't know any tec. stuff but I put the 6 inputs from a SACD disc into the 610 the made a DTS disc with a TASCAM CD Recorder
the disc's will play on any CD player
But the trick is the recorder, it will not record on a Pioneer CD recorder that I have
Ron
 

timbre4

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Okay, FINALLY got the DTS-610 and started testing on Saturday. Right of the box it worked great for piping SACD analog outs into a DTS signal fed to Denon's decoder via optical cable.

The rest has not been simple; my first test DTS CDR yielded two 6 ch mono song files that would play but just barely stable. I only recorded 2 songs to check it out...

I also couldn't seem to monitor the file; I connected the 410 card's digital out coax to the Denon's coax in and in Auto mode it sense that input but never played it back. That's about as far as I got; need to re-check my cable routing for typical goofups.

Will try some more in a few days
 

Quadzilla

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I don't know any tec. stuff but I put the 6 inputs from a SACD disc into the 610 the made a DTS disc with a TASCAM CD Recorder the disc's will play on any CD player But the trick is the recorder, it will not record on a Pioneer CD recorder that I have Ron
I just picked up a Pioneer Elite PDR-19RW from the used rack at the local hi-fi shop, and the DTS-610 doesn't seem to work with this model either. It seemed to lock onto the digital input, but when I finalized the disk and played in back in my DV-45A all I got was a lot of static ... but not the kind that you might get from the analogue outputs of a DTS CD before decoding. I also have a Yamaha CDR-1300HD with a CD and Hard Drive recorder. I will try that tomorrow. Too bad about the Elite recorder, it is a lovely unit. Mike.
 

timbre4

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Gonna make another stab at this soon.

Can anyone confirm how many channels I need to arm for recording a 44.1DTS bitstream? I was expecting one as it was still in bitstream form, but looking back at my incomplete results is the bitstream somehow split into six already?

Really thought I understood this as a single stream to record and THEN decode into six channels....
 

The Quadfather

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With the DTS610, what you want the recorder to do is to burn the bitstream without modification. So if there is any input signal processing, such as level controls or ALC, and if you can, turn it off. Anything that is done to the DTS stream will mess it up so that it won't decode. By the way, it is confirmed to be 44.1 KHZ sampling rate. No sample rate conversion required. I have successfully made a recording by feeding my DTS610 straight to my Philips recorder. The Philips will not roll on anything except 44.1 KHZ sample rate, and it identifies the DTS 610 data rate as "bit perfect" meaning 44.1 . I tried using a Behringer sample rate converter to convert the 48KHZ sample rate of the DTS bitstream from a DVD player to 44.1KHZ and feed it to a DTS decoder. The DTS decoder did not like it at all. But the DTS610 will not need sample rate conversion.

The Quadfather
 

timbre4

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And good news that is! I did successfully record and playback the 44.1K in Sound Forge weeks ago but never got around to doing a full album and burn to disc.

The loose end I have is recording the whole thing (continuous) and then observing track markers are where you'd expect them.

Have you now got a finished product that navigates from track-to-track like most any disc and did you have to build any of that in the TOC finalizing?
 

The Quadfather

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No. I do not have a divided disc. It's one continous track. The player thinks it's one song. Bit I have recorded the whole album. I believe my recorder allows me to put in the track markers on the fly while I'm conducting the recording process. So, I reckon what i'll do is record while i'm listening. One good thing is that since I am taking the music from an external source and the DTS encoder does not insert the copy bit, the recorder does not require "music rated" discs before it will roll. I can use a standard computer disc. I have run into this problem when trying to dupe a CD from the internal disc drive. The recorder has a keyboard connection also, which I guess allows me to insert text to be encoded. I'll have to read up on that. Meanwhile I can listen to Super Furry Animals on my truck player in surround.

The Quadfather
 

timbre4

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Nice!

I figure I'll record the continuous bitstream in SoundForge and then chop into tracks there and lay it up in CD Architect which has a number of options.

Vacation days a comin' and then I can play around with it.
 

vinylguy4

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Have you now got a finished product that navigates from track-to-track like most any disc and did you have to build any of that in the TOC finalizing?
As I record, I push the pause button on the CD Recorder to insert a track break. So you can copy a 9 song tape and create a 9 track DTS recording on your CD Recorder using the DTS-610. May not work this way on all CD recorders.

Vinylguy4
 

timbre4

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Thanks for posting; I figured there was a way to add them on the fly and then finalize TOC. :cool:
 

winopener

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So... the Creative encoder has the possibility to work at 44100 s/r?
 
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