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HiRez Poll Santana - SANTANA (Debut Album) [SACD - JAPAN]

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Rate the SACD of Santana - SANTANA (Debut Album)

  • 7

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1: Terrible Content, Surround Mix, and Fidelity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    44

fredblue

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Slightly off-topic, but since it seems a lot of people ordered Santana together with the new Headhunters, could anyone comment on their experience listening to the latter? It would interesting to know how different it is from the previous one.
It is a new mastering, so what happens to the poll then? Should there be a new one?
the new HeadHunters 7" is a subtly different master for sure and is a pure 4.0 presentation with no faux Centre & LFE like the old 5.1 SACD.

is it worth picking up the new 7"? for me it was worthwhile, chiefly for the delightful packaging.

in its own right the 7" sounds good, however the Rears seem to have been slightly dialled down on the new disc compared to the old one (and the Fronts boosted by a v.small amount) so far i think i prefer the channel balance on the old one but the sound of the new one 🤔
 

BeoProf

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Warsaw PL
the new HeadHunters 7" is a subtly different master for sure and is a pure 4.0 presentation with no faux Centre & LFE like the old 5.1 SACD.

is it worth picking up the new 7"? for me it was worthwhile, chiefly for the delightful packaging.

in its own right the 7" sounds good, however the Rears seem to have been slightly dialled down on the new disc compared to the old one (and the Fronts boosted by a v.small amount) so far i think i prefer the channel balance on the old one but the sound of the new one 🤔
Thanks for the reply! The old SACD indeed sounds very good already so I am quite curious to know how the new one compares. I admit it is only my curiosity since I have both the new Santana and Herbie 7" on its way to me, but it will take another week or two since I chose shipping via Japan Post. DHL and other courier companies are ruthless here when it comes to VAT and extra fees.
 

marpow

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San Mateo CA
I have read all your posts, thank you, most are helpful.
It seems there is, as expected, some bass issues.
Has anyone listened to the stereo layer on it's own or compared to the (MOFI hybrid SACD DR's of 10's and 11's)?
My copy arrives today and will hopefully be turning on my new rig this weekend but with new speakers that need some breakin it will be a while before I will be able to fully hear this in it's best way.
 

Titch

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Jul 25, 2020
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Norway
I have read all your posts, thank you, most are helpful.
It seems there is, as expected, some bass issues.
Has anyone listened to the stereo layer on it's own or compared to the (MOFI hybrid SACD DR's of 10's and 11's)?
My copy arrives today and will hopefully be turning on my new rig this weekend but with new speakers that need some breakin it will be a while before I will be able to fully hear this in it's best way.
Yes - I've listened to the stereo layer and it is definitely different to both the MOFI (which sounds typically "flat") and my other CD. I don't have the capability of analysing the DR but it sounds fuller than the MOFI. I'm sure there are people out there able to analyse waveforms and such but I tend to go with my ears.
 

marpow

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Yes - I've listened to the stereo layer and it is definitely different to both the MOFI (which sounds typically "flat") and my other CD. I don't have the capability of analysing the DR but it sounds fuller than the MOFI. I'm sure there are people out there able to analyse waveforms and such but I tend to go with my ears.
Thank you, I guess I was hoping for that. Many times the DR values are the same even between a CD and a SACD. I use the DR (Dynamic Range) as a tool but like you say in the end it is always the ears.
I have the original CD, the MOFI SACD and the Legacy Edition 2 X CD set, and all 4 discs have DR's in the mostly 10's and 11's.
 

~dave~~wave~

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Is the bass guitar in stereo or one channel?
It starts out in the phantom center in stereo for the first few tracks, and them migrates to the rears and all around.
By track 7 it's spread all around the room.

(My setup uses floor-standing full-range rears in the corners to showcase vintage quads to best advantage.
Home theater smaller surround speakers at standard position results may vary?)

...Soul Sacrifice I felt like the bass line should be a little more prominent, but I went back and compared it to a stereo recording and the bass just isn't that prominent on the track as originally mixed.
My go-to version was always the live one from Woodstock, stronger bass there.

That the last track on a lot of Columbia Q8's is more-often-than-not VERY aggressively mixed to REALLY show off what a 4-channel mix can do?
I think Soul Sacrifice is the poster child for that observation.
The reverb in the RF & cymbals flying around.
Bass guitar takes a back seat...

...Legacy Edition 2 X CD set...
Just discovered the 2004 Columbia Legacy double CD streaming on Amazon.
Four versions of Soul Sacrifice (!), Alternate Take #4 has a great bass sound.
 

JonUrban

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Very cool little post card came with mine today. I love shit like that, although I don't know why. Way better than marbles, though.

Santana and Headhunters 1.jpg

As for the audio, HOLY CRAP! this thing sounds incredible. TEN ALL THE WAY. I mean, this is pure 100% absolutely no-doubt-about-it demo material to play for anyone you want to show off your surround system to. It's 4 corner quad at its best and there is no compromise whatsoever.

Make someone smile. Play "Evil Ways" and watch their faces. Oh My! I know it might be $60 or more, but the packaging, the care and detail of the little things, and the audio and content are all spectacular.

If you're on the fence and can afford it, to me, this is a NO BRAINER MUST BUY.

Go. Now. Order. You know you want it. :)
 

sjcorne

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I’m going with a “9”. Ever since Sony Japan started their 7” quad SACD reissue program, this is a title I’d hoped they would tackle and it’s thrilling to see it actually materialize. As always, the quad LP replica packaging is a delight.

The percussion aspect of the music suits itself really well to surround, and--for the most part--the quad mix doesn’t disappoint. The rear channels are LOUD and loaded with full-range instrumentation. Even the old SQ LP gave an impressive surround effect, but this will be my go-to version from now on. Highlights for me are “Waiting” (love the rotating cymbal crashes and dueling guitar lines in the rear channels), “Evil Ways” , “Jingo”, and “Soul Sacrifice”. There's also a really neat effect in "Savor" where the time-delay on a cymbal crash in one of the rear channels appears in the diagonally-opposite front channel.

If you have the ability and/or interest in this sort of thing, try auditioning each channel of “Evil Ways” separately - it’s really cool how you can hear the slightly different vocal parts in each corner.

I don’t know the original stereo mix inside-and-out, but there are a few balance things that bug me in the quad. My biggest gripe is that the vocals seem buried in “Persuasion”. Some of the lead guitar soloing in “Shades Of Time” doesn’t quite jump out like it should. The drums (particularly the snare) are a bit recessed in “You Just Don’t Care”. There seems to be a lot more reverb on the drums in “Soul Sacrifice”. I also miss how the conga line that kicks off “Evil Ways” used to pan across the stereo spectrum. In the quad, it’s pinned to the left front speaker.

In terms of fidelity, I would say the album still sounds kind of ‘old’ (I agree with @skherbeck about the dullness on a few cuts, namely “Persuasion” and “You Just Don’t Care”), but there are welcome extensions on the top and bottom end that make this a far better listen than past releases of the quad mix. The dynamic range hasn’t been compressed--the middle section of “Treat” is explosive, as it should be--and there is some audible tape hiss in the quieter sections, which suggests to me that they didn’t go overboard with noise reduction.

I can’t wait for the rest of the Santana quads to get this treatment, particularly the third album :)

"Evil Ways":
Evil Ways SACD.jpg

"Soul Sacrifice":
Soul Sacrifice SACD.jpg

Santana.jpg
 

The56Kid

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Erie, PA - USA
the new HeadHunters 7" is a subtly different master for sure and is a pure 4.0 presentation with no faux Centre & LFE like the old 5.1 SACD.

is it worth picking up the new 7"? for me it was worthwhile, chiefly for the delightful packaging.

in its own right the 7" sounds good, however the Rears seem to have been slightly dialled down on the new disc compared to the old one (and the Fronts boosted by a v.small amount) so far i think i prefer the channel balance on the old one but the sound of the new one 🤔
Couldn’t agree more regarding the rears being slightly dialed down - especially during the last two songs. I was totally blown away by the first two songs mix wise but not so much during the latter half of the album.
 

JonUrban

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Connecticut
Couldn’t agree more regarding the rears being slightly dialed down - especially during the last two songs. I was totally blown away by the first two songs mix wise but not so much during the latter half of the album.
I don't hear or see that at all. Here are the last two tracks and the rears seem to be the same as the fronts in amplitude:

SoulSac.jpg

YJDC.jpg
 

JonUrban

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Dear Jon-

Another poll thread gone off the rails.
The reference was to HeadHunters.

This place is hopeless.:ROFLMAO:

PS- Appreciate the waveforms
Oh. My bad. You guys will just have to live with me losing my resources here until I drop dead. :)

Here is "Treat", a favorite of me. Love that piano......

Treat.jpg
 

~dave~~wave~

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. ...The band were obviously influenced by Bitches Brew...
A minor correction for historical context.
This band could not have heard Bitches Brew.
In A Silent Way hadn't even been released when this was recorded.

So it was quite the reverse, Santana influenced Miles, and everybody else.
For those who didn't live through it, you can't imagine the impact this record made when it came out.
Every rock group started adding latin percussion. (Chicago Transit Authority)
Any guy with a conga drum could join a band overnight.
 
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