Sept 4, 2020 - Official release date for Doobie Brothers Quadio at $59.98 List

[kfbkfb]

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/2021/08/quadio-boxed-set-by-the-doobie-brothers-4-0-surround-sound/^^^
...the higher frequencies on the new quad Blu-Ray seem a bit over-emphasized in comparison to the old 5.1 DVD-A.


I got out my Captain and Me CD, it doesn't sound harsh.

I'll try headphones (just be sure it isn't something about my ~$30 speakers) and I'll also try my Pioneer VSX-534 and an all HDMI connection from yet another Sony BR player.

edit: the above mentioned all HDMI setup didn't sound harsh although the BR version did have noticeably more treble than both the DVD-A and CD did.


Kirk Bayne

 

[mrcond]

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/2021/08/quadio-boxed-set-by-the-doobie-brothers-4-0-surround-sound/^^^
...the higher frequencies on the new quad Blu-Ray seem a bit over-emphasized in comparison to the old 5.1 DVD-A.


I got out my Captain and Me CD, it doesn't sound harsh.

I'll try headphones (just be sure it isn't something about my ~$30 speakers) and I'll also try my Pioneer VSX-534 and an all HDMI connection from yet another Sony BR player.

edit: the above mentioned all HDMI setup didn't sound harsh although the BR version did have noticeably more treble than both the DVD-A and CD did.


Kirk Bayne

"Harsh" is a subjective term. One person may hear something as harsh while another may hear the same thing as "added detail and clarity". Also, the system you are listening on plays a roll in the perception. Brighter sounding speakers may make a brighter sounding recording unbearable to some. Personally, I think the Doobies Quadio set sounds great on my system.

As an aside, I suppose whether or not there is distortion in the signal itself is more objective than subjective, and could potentially be measured somehow (I have neither the tools nor the desire to explore this, however).

 

[JediJoker]

@jimfisheye also noted the "midrange scoop" that seems to have been applied to this set. (I know other folks who have complained about this, too.)

Yeah, it's a very common mastering trend, and one that Craig Anderson subscribes to. It's also present on the Chicago Quadio set.

 

[kfbkfb]

Maybe a "contact us" campaign - thank Rhino for the Quadio MCH series of discs, but mention that the Dutton Vocalion MCH discs aren't EQ'd (AFAIK), and please don't EQ the Quadio content.

https://store.rhino.com/contacts

Kirk Bayne

 

[JediJoker]

...but mention that the Dutton Vocalion MCH discs aren't EQ'd (AFAIK)...

I'd be very surprised if Michael Dutton doesn't use EQ in his mastering chain. It's just that he doesn't "smiley" the material he masters.

 

[kfbkfb]

Going OT...anyone have a Q4 open reel prerecorded tape and a DV MCH SACD of the same album - that should reveal if DV is using EQ on MCH SACDs from the quad master tapes they license.


Kirk Bayne

 

[sjcorne]

...mention that the Dutton Vocalion MCH discs aren't EQ'd (AFAIK)

Dutton definitely uses EQ, just compare his recent Guess Who SACDs with Audio Fidelity's Best Of from 2015 (which I believe is a flat transfer) - same quad mixes on the hits, but very different tonality. It's amazing how careful boosts to the midrange and/or high-end can liven up an older recording.

 

[JediJoker]

Going OT...anyone have a Q4 open reel prerecorded tape and a DV MCH SACD of the same album - that should reveal if DV is using EQ on MCH SACDs from the quad master tapes they license.

No, it won't. It will only reveal whether or not the mastering is different. Both will likely have been altered from the original 4-track mixdown master tapes. Flat transfers are and always have been rare across all release formats, including analog quad releases.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

What the heck is a Midrange Scoop?

 

[sjcorne]

What the heck is a Midrange Scoop?

The old adage with EQ is to cut rather than boost - so if you wanted to make the high and low frequencies more prominent, you'd cut the midrange.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The old adage with EQ is to cut rather than boost - so if you wanted to make the high and low frequencies more prominent, you'd cut the midrange.

View attachment 75579

The ol' smiley face; and that's why some of the Doobie's phantom center vocals sound weak to me.

 

[4-earredwonder]

The ol' smiley face; and that's why some of the Doobie's phantom center vocals sound weak to me.

The RHINO QUAD Doobie Brothers BD~As sound magnificent on my full range B & W 802 Nautilus speakers. IMO, a fantastic set mastered to perfection.

One could only wish/hope that all 1970's recordings sounded this great ....... Oh, wait, some [actually quite a lot] of them do courtesy of Dutton Vocalion's exceptional mastering and Michael Dutton's uncanny attention to detail!

 

[par4ken]

Back in the day myself and most people I know applied bass and treble boost to virtually every sound source. With the move from ceramic to magnetic phono cartridges and to high quality and high bias cassette tapes less boost was necessary. With the introduction of CD's bass and treble boost was mostly unnecessary and in fact sometimes a treble cut was necessary.

The Quadio Chicago and Doobie Bothers sets sound fine to me with no/little manipulation of the tone controls. Likewise the Sony and the DV SACD's sound fine. I do notice that many of the MFSL CD's sound a bit dull, due to the flat equalisation. The same goes for most Audio Fidelity releases. I'm not complaining though, I can turn up the bass and treble on those flat sounding discs and cut the bass and treble on those hot discs.

This topic brings up another question, when transferred to the hard drive should I equalise in software or not? If so how much and to what sources. You could play around with each recording but that would be an incredible amount of work. To standardise settings for each recording type is one idea. Perhaps have a pre-set amount of bass and treble boost for flat sources. Have a bass cut for those boomy sounding HD tracks. A slight bass boost for vinyl. A slight treble cut for those harsh sounding CD's. The goal would be to make everything sound about the same, tone wise. Good idea or not, any thoughts?

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/learn/how-to-fix-harshness-when-mastering-music
This hearkens back to the early days of the CD, IIRC, some classical music record companies were boosting the treble a lot on their master recordings knowing the LP mastering process would reduce the treble relative to the midrange and bass, with the CD, no treble reduction occurred during mastering, which may have contributed to the idea that digital audio was harsh.

Anyway, I would prefer a flat copy of the master recording, I can apply EQ with my audio equipment.


Kirk Bayne

 

[esimms86]

https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/learn/how-to-fix-harshness-when-mastering-music
This hearkens back to the early days of the CD, IIRC, some classical music record companies were boosting the treble a lot on their master recordings knowing the LP mastering process would reduce the treble relative to the midrange and bass, with the CD, no treble reduction occurred during mastering, which may have contributed to the idea that digital audio was harsh.

Anyway, I would prefer a flat copy of the master recording, I can apply EQ with my audio equipment.


Kirk Bayne

Gotta love the fact that Steven Wilson typically includes flat transfers of the original mixes when he releases his remixes on DVD-A and Blu Ray.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Both the Quadio sets of Chicago and The Doobie Brothers sound great to me along with The Doors set. Some of the best sounding sets in my collection.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Both the Quadio sets of Chicago and The Doobie Brothers sound great to me along with The Doors set. Some of the best sounding sets in my collection.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[kfbkfb]

The goal would be to make everything sound about the same, tone wise.

That could be step 1 (flatten the frequency response), step 2 could be adjust the EQ the way you like it, it would affect all the audio the same way.

If you do this, it could be helpful to share the EQ(s) to get flat response from a variety of recorded media here in QQ.


Kirk Bayne

 

[steelydave]

I think it's a testament to the level of seeming transparency that Mike Dutton often achieves with his remasters that people think they're 'flat transfers.'

Mike does a lot of work to make his releases sound the best that they can, and I know for a fact that some of them have required extensive restoration and mastering. I totally understand that the majority of remasters in the 'loudness war' era have somewhere between bad and terrible, but it seems like the pendulum has swung the other way with audiophiles, where they claim that the "flat transfer" is the best way to hear an album.

Flat transfers can sound good (or great) but it's a total crapshoot - for every decent sounding one like the Jethro Tull and Yes flat transfers, there are ones that sound anywhere between boxy and lifeless (like the quad mixes of Loggins & Messina self-titled and the two Earth, Wind & Fire) and downright bad (the quad mix of the Guess Who's Best Of the Guess Who) as heard on the AF releases of these albums.

If the choice is between a flat transfer and a mastering that's had all the dynamic range smashed out of it, sure, I'll take the flat transfer. But as someone who's spent far too many hours trying to get old Q8 and quad LP transfers to sound half decent, I'll always take a tasteful mastering from a talented craftsman over having to do the EQ work myself.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

Both the Quadio sets of Chicago and The Doobie Brothers sound great to me along with The Doors set. Some of the best sounding sets in my collection.

I completely agree other than I don’t have The Doors. Which 1 you’re talking about….not sure