Simple Atmos Decoder (not a sound bar)??

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There is a playback system called Fmod Studio that can use the Dolby software for Windows (Dolby/Atmos package should be in Windows store)
I believe it's essentially a 12-channel software player. I had it installed but at the time decided to forget it for a while and never installed the Windows Dolby package. I believe this is all geared toward gaming....and I don't know all it's capabilities.
If you want to wade through it all, the site is here:
https://www.fmod.com/
Actually is more in depth that I remembered.
 
You could dig into a soundbar and substitute extension speaker cables for the side and up speakers.
 
kamranv said:
Thank you. I’m surprised 7.2 is marketed as “Atmos.” Is there one out there with ceiling speakers too by chance? 7.1.4 or more? 7.1.4 is what is considered the minimum for people making Atmos records.
Click to expand...
7 channels is the minimum "requirement" for a full atmos system (Not including any watered down versions of the technology like soundbars, headphones, etc.). there are 5 main channels (bed layer) plus 2 atmos channels for a total of 7. however, 9 channels (5 bed and 4 atmos) is a more desired configuration if your room allows it.
 
I would only modify fourml8r's statement from "if your room allows it" to "if your wallet can afford it".
I had fully planned to buy a system more capable than my Onkyo's 5.1.2 atmos.....until I started pricing the next tier. Wowsa ain't gonna happen for this old retiree unless prices take a header which is unlikely.
 
boondocks said:
I would only modify fourml8r's statement from "if your room allows it" to "if your wallet can afford it".
I had fully planned to buy a system more capable than my Onkyo's 5.1.2 atmos.....until I started pricing the next tier. Wowsa ain't gonna happen for this old retiree unless prices take a header which is unlikely.
Click to expand...
If you are willing to wait a couple of years, I bet this year's crop of "state of the art" Atmos receivers will hit the used market at substantially discounted prices when the next wave is released from Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, etc. They seem to come out with new models fairly regularly.
 
mrcond said:
If you are willing to wait a couple of years, I bet this year's crop of "state of the art" Atmos receivers will hit the used market at substantially discounted prices when the next wave is released from Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, etc. They seem to come out with new models fairly regularly.
Click to expand...
Good thinking. I also feel like there may be a next wave of non-dolby but still "Atmos compatible" (aka codec-agnostic Next Generation Audio) processors. The Atmos master file is built on an open spec but DD+JOC is what apple is using and AC4-IMS is what Tidal on Android is using. Not sure how open these methods are but I gotta believe that they are similarly open or reasonably compatible in some way if the source file is based on an open standard. Anyone out there smart like that with what the hell is going on with these delivery methods?
 
kamranv said:
Good thinking. I also feel like there may be a next wave of non-dolby but still "Atmos compatible" (aka codec-agnostic Next Generation Audio) processors. The Atmos master file is built on an open spec but DD+JOC is what apple is using and AC4-IMS is what Tidal on Android is using. Not sure how open these methods are but I gotta believe that they are similarly open or reasonably compatible in some way if the source file is based on an open standard. Anyone out there smart like that with what the hell is going on with these delivery methods?
Click to expand...
Not sure I'm smart here... :p
I found this documentation, and it is hard to fully understand it, because both Dolby and Apple like to make it "Magic"
What I understand, is:
  • Apple always streams dolby Atmos in DD+JOC
  • Tidal streams dolby Atmos in DD+JOC for speaker systems and in AC4-IMS for mobile devices
DD+ is basically AC3 but DD+JOC is "enhanced" AC3
AC4 can be an object based format like DD+JOC using AJCC (AC4-AJCC), but AC4-IMS is not object based, it is made specifically for mobile devices. It is a 2 channels format that allows you to switch between stereo and binaural using metada. It requires way less bandwidth than DD+JOC, not because the encoder is better than AC3 but because you don't get all the objects. This is also where the Binaural Metadata in the Dolby Encoder is helpful. DD+JOC does not have binaural metadata.

I believe, because IC4-IMS is not object based, then you cannot use it with head tracking, this is where Spatial Audio comes in.

Apple has built on top of DD+JOC its own renderer. It renders to any speaker setup and in binaural for headphones. It also changes the binaural rendering if you are listening with your headset to your iphone (close) or Apple TV (far).

This is where audio engineers have difficulties with Spatial Audio on headsets: the binaural coming out of the Dolby Renderer is not the same as the Binaural coming out of Spatial Audio, because Apple adapts it depending on your listening environment. Airpods have also external and internal facing mics that will change the sound. Will they be able to tweak the HRTF like this to better work with your ears?

Read more: How the AirPods 3 were made – and how Apple plans to make them even better

Now, I'm happy to learn more about all of this. So if anyone has some better documentation please send it my way.
 
Franck said:
Not sure I'm smart here... :p
I found this documentation, and it is hard to fully understand it, because both Dolby and Apple like to make it "Magic"
What I understand, is:
  • Apple always streams dolby Atmos in DD+JOC
  • Tidal streams dolby Atmos in DD+JOC for speaker systems and in AC4-IMS for mobile devices
DD+ is basically AC3 but DD+JOC is "enhanced" AC3
AC4 can be an object based format like DD+JOC using AJCC (AC4-AJCC), but AC4-IMS is not object based, it is made specifically for mobile devices. It is a 2 channels format that allows you to switch between stereo and binaural using metada. It requires way less bandwidth than DD+JOC, not because the encoder is better than AC3 but because you don't get all the objects. This is also where the Binaural Metadata in the Dolby Encoder is helpful. DD+JOC does not have binaural metadata.

I believe, because IC4-IMS is not object based, then you cannot use it with head tracking, this is where Spatial Audio comes in.

Apple has built on top of DD+JOC its own renderer. It renders to any speaker setup and in binaural for headphones. It also changes the binaural rendering if you are listening with your headset to your iphone (close) or Apple TV (far).

This is where audio engineers have difficulties with Spatial Audio on headsets: the binaural coming out of the Dolby Renderer is not the same as the Binaural coming out of Spatial Audio, because Apple adapts it depending on your listening environment. Airpods have also external and internal facing mics that will change the sound. Will they be able to tweak the HRTF like this to better work with your ears?

Read more: How the AirPods 3 were made – and how Apple plans to make them even better

Now, I'm happy to learn more about all of this. So if anyone has some better documentation please send it my way.
Click to expand...

This is supercool @Franck. Thank you for the excellent research. Great read.

Based on all of this, it does seem a little strange that all of the streaming services didn't use AC-4. On the other hand, maybe the reason could be some hardware/protocol complications that may also be tied to some business goals.

In the end it sounds like the wizards at Apple (maybe most specifically Gary Geaves) will eventually get to a place where their Spatial Audio Renderer isn't mutating the mixes more than it needs to and everyone else may fully move over to AC-4.

Is that utopia? It will all be interesting to watch (er.. listen).
 
...and more to the point of the original post. Maybe if there was a piece of software that could address an HDMI input coming INTO a computer to emulate all of the consumer manufacturers different approaches for quality testing a mix. Anyone seen something like this?

Would be neat if something like that Trinnov Dolby Atmos object viewer were a part of it too (but WAY less expensive). We can only dream.
 
kamranv said:
This is supercool @Franck. Thank you for the excellent research. Great read.

Based on all of this, it does seem a little strange that all of the streaming services didn't use AC-4. On the other hand, maybe the reason could be some hardware/protocol complications that may also be tied to some business goals.

In the end it sounds like the wizards at Apple (maybe most specifically Gary Geaves) will eventually get to a place where their Spatial Audio Renderer isn't mutating the mixes more than it needs to and everyone else may fully move over to AC-4.

Is that utopia? It will all be interesting to watch (er.. listen).
Click to expand...
Thanks @kamranv , I think Dolby did not fully develop the technology for binaural, my feeling is their market is “speaker systems” and Apple is “iphone users”, so Apple had to bridge the development gap with Spatial Audio. May be Dolby will catch up. I have not seen any full dolby headsets promotions, it feels more like Dolby was saying “ yes you can listen to it on headsets if you really want it”.

There is also a licensing issue AC3 is royalty free, but may be not DD+JOC, while AC4 has still a royalty on it. That being said, Dolby does not seem to charge you per technology, but per device, so you can pack any technology you need in your device. So I don’t really buy the fact that it is a licensing cost issue. I think Apple supports AC3, and not AC4, and that was may be faster/easier to build upon what they support today than go all the way to AC4. Also the tendency was to go to open formats for web supoort (web3/metaverse) and ac4 does not fit in… Apple Music is on many types of devices (Windows, Android,…).

Well that’s me reading the tea leaves…
 
And here we go again with the proprietary processes, the royalties, and the incompatibilities.

It's worse than it was when we had Q4, Q8, EV, DQ, SQ, QS. QM, CD4, and UD4.

I remember that when stereo on records was finally available in 1957. There was a single standard! Why? Because the 1933 patents on the process had already expired in 1950. There were no royalties on the use of the 45/45 stereo groove.

In the quadraphonics era and today, everyone was thinking about collecting royalties and not having to pay royalties. The result was and is a hodgepodge of conflicting systems.

Even Peter Scheiber was plagued with nonpayment of royalties on his patent that covered everything matrix. Sansui had placed QS in the public domain with no royalties, and yet those who used it owed Scheiber.

The only other time when we had a single standard was when Dolby Surround was the only system in use.
 
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I didn't have the patience to break through the brochure speak on that item. The obvious signs of cheapness I say to avoid are all there. No brand name. Or "Surround System" maybe? Only unbalanced rca outputs. HDMI host connection.

If it does a job and it's only $50 or something though, hey what the heck!
Looks like you'll have to vet what it can and can't decode carefully but if it does what you need it to there it is.

It isn't going to have an Atmos decoder in it.
I wonder how close Dolby is to releasing it or someone is to porting it from the available AVR_OS release?

You know what might be fun? A chart-like post that lists as many devices as people can provide feedback for with no bs feature descriptions with yes/no columns. Probably end in a take down order though!
 
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