SM3 just landed !!!

[Argou]

Hello all ,

finally after a month traveling from AU to DK the surround master V3 has landed in my leaving room !!!
I have a few questions but what is my concern at the moment is that I can’t find how I reach the clipping point of the input level ??? I tern all the way up to 12db the music is deafening loud but no clipping …. Am I doing something wrong ?
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I can’t figure it out .
Any input will be much appreciated!
Cheers
Kostis

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Hello all ,

finally after a month traveling from AU to DK the surround master V3 has landed in my leaving room !!!
I have a few questions but what is my concern at the moment is that I can’t find how I reach the clipping point of the input level ??? I tern all the way up to 12db the music is deafening loud but no clipping …. Am I doing something wrong ?
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I can’t figure it out .
Any input will be much appreciated!
Cheers
Kostis

Hello Kostis!

It is about what device your feeding your SMv3. As the amplitude is turned up going into the SMv3 it may at some point hit the clipping point and a little Red LED will start to glow, by or on the Main Vol. Knob (I forget exactly where.) I don’t believe the loudness you have your amp set at “post processing” has anything to do with it.

Of course I guess you could have a dead LED as a problem, but doubtful. So what are you using to feed your SMv3?

 

[~dave~~wave~]

No red led, no audible clipping, plenty of volume... No Problem?

 

[Argou]

Hello Kostis!

It is about what device your feeding your SMv3. As the amplitude is turned up going into the SMv3 it may at some point hit the clipping point and a little Red LED will start to glow, by or on the Main Vol. Knob (I forget exactly where.) I don’t believe the loudness you have your amp set at “post processing” has anything to do with it.

Of course I guess you could have a dead LED as a problem, but doubtful. So what are you using to feed your SMv3?

Thank you Pupster for your reply !
I am a bit confused , i don’t think my amp has this options .
I feed the SM3 with a Sansui AU 717 which is the frond amp too …. From the tape loop , rec to SM3 input , frond L,R from SM3 to tape play ….
Cheers
Kostis

 

[Argou]

No red led, no audible clipping, plenty of volume... No Problem?

Dane you have a question mark to “no problem ? “ this is what I’m wondering , do I have a problem ?
Chucky has comment in an other post that you need to operate just before clipping …. I have no clipping / red Led ….
Cheers
Kostis

 

[par4ken]

Dane you have a question mark to “no problem ? “ this is what I’m wondering , do I have a problem ?
Chucky has comment in an other post that you need to operate just before clipping …. I have no clipping / red Led ….
Cheers
Kostis

Operating just below the clipping point will give the absolute best signal to noise ratio. If noise is not a problem why worry about it? The real problem is if clipping starts to occur (that's the reason for the LED), it will sound really bad.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Dane you have a question mark to “no problem ? “ this is what I’m wondering , do I have a problem ?
Chucky has comment in an other post that you need to operate just before clipping …. I have no clipping / red Led ….
Cheers
Kostis

OK, No Problem!

I'm not a SM owner, but as a lifelong audio hobbyist, this is my experience.

A mixer may need to accept a wide range of audio signal strengths to be compatible with various other devices.
The better ones have an input volume control and led clip indicator to facilitate optimum adjustment of very strong signals.

If the signal levels are a good match, the led clip indicator never comes into play.
In that case, best practice is to set the input level to midrange, or use it in combination with the output adjustment to set its range to midrange or whatever your preference.

 

[Argou]

No I definitely have no bad sound , maybe I have it wrong in my head ….. what is that clipping about ….

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Dane you have a question mark to “no problem ? “ this is what I’m wondering , do I have a problem ?
Chucky has comment in an other post that you need to operate just before clipping …. I have no clipping / red Led ….
Cheers
Kostis

With the Surround Master input level set to 12:00 the clip light will come on at about 1V level. Much of the vintage stuff was designed for lower level signals. An modern CD/Blu-Ray player will have a 0dB max level output of about 2V. A vintage phono preamp will have an out of 500mV or less. Of course that means the following input stage such as a tape loop will also have a matching level of sensitivity which is low and by that I mean quite sensitive compared to modern day standards. I see on your Sansui models line level input sensitivity is quite a low 180mV.

So, a rather low level output to the Surround Master means the input level can be adjusted up quite a ways with out clipping. But the SM also has gain. It means it could be delivering quite a high signal level to the Sansui tape inputs.

My advice, keep the input level high on the SM if it is not clipping. The output level controls have a +- 6dB range. Turn those down to accommodate. And of course you have master volume controls on the Sansui's, yes? Adjust those also to get the desired sound level output.

Have fun! The Surround Master is a magic box & well worth experimenting to get the most out of it.

 

[Argou]

OK, No Problem!

I'm not a SM owner, but as a lifelong audio hobbyist, this is my experience.

A mixer may need to accept a wide range of audio signal strengths to be compatible with various other devices.
The better ones have an input volume control and led clip indicator to facilitate optimum adjustment of very strong signals.

If the signal levels are a good match, the led clip indicator never comes into play.
In that case, best practice is to set the input level to midrange, or use it in combination with the output adjustment to set its range to midrange or whatever your preference.

Okay , got this …. Or maybe a part of it !
I lost you there with the midrange ….I ll need to do some more googling !!!
Thank you Dave !

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Okay , got this …. Or maybe a part of it !
I lost you there with the midrange ….I ll need to do some more googling !!!
Thank you Dave !

Middle of adjustment range.
12 o'clock on analog clock face.
Pointing straight up.

Enjoy your new gadget.
Don't over-think it.
Time to put some music on.

 

[Argou]

With the Surround Master input level set to 12:00 the clip light will come on at about 1V level. Much of the vintage stuff was designed for lower level signals. An modern CD/Blu-Ray player will have a 0dB max level output of about 2V. A vintage phono preamp will have an out of 500mV or less. Of course that means the following input stage such as a tape loop will also have a matching level of sensitivity which is low and by that I mean quite sensitive compared to modern day standards. I see on your Sansui models line level input sensitivity is quite a low 180mV.

So, a rather low level output to the Surround Master means the input level can be adjusted up quite a ways with out clipping. But the SM also has gain. It means it could be delivering quite a high signal level to the Sansui tape inputs.

My advice, keep the input level high on the SM if it is not clipping. The output level controls have a +- 6dB range. Turn those down to accommodate. And of course you have master volume controls on the Sansui's, yes? Adjust those also to get the desired sound level output.

Have fun! The Surround Master is a magic box & well worth experimenting to get the most out of it.
[/QUOTE

With the Surround Master input level set to 12:00 the clip light will come on at about 1V level. Much of the vintage stuff was designed for lower level signals. An modern CD/Blu-Ray player will have a 0dB max level output of about 2V. A vintage phono preamp will have an out of 500mV or less. Of course that means the following input stage such as a tape loop will also have a matching level of sensitivity which is low and by that I mean quite sensitive compared to modern day standards. I see on your Sansui models line level input sensitivity is quite a low 180mV.

So, a rather low level output to the Surround Master means the input level can be adjusted up quite a ways with out clipping. But the SM also has gain. It means it could be delivering quite a high signal level to the Sansui tape inputs.

My advice, keep the input level high on the SM if it is not clipping. The output level controls have a +- 6dB range. Turn those down to accommodate. And of course you have master volume controls on the Sansui's, yes? Adjust those also to get the desired sound level output.

Have fun! The Surround Master is a magic box & well worth experimenting to get the most out of it.

Thank you Sonic wiz !
Make sense now , I was wondering maybe I had a bad; Led ?
At the moment the frond speakers are running with the AU717 and the rear with the AU 555a so I manipulate the master volume controls of the two amps to get the right sound field . I will experiment like this to figure out the most about the SM but then I will hook it up to my QS100 and use it as a control panel “ as you have suggested at some point “
I have bypassed the internal amp of the QS100 by tapping the signal right after is decoded ( see picture below )
I’m feeding this signal to the DIN connector
(DIN connector disassembled from the circuit) then with a “DIN to RCA “ cable I feed the integrated amp , in this case the AU 555a
Cheers
Kostis

 

[J. PUPSTER]

With the Surround Master input level set to 12:00 the clip light will come on at about 1V level. Much of the vintage stuff was designed for lower level signals. An modern CD/Blu-Ray player will have a 0dB max level output of about 2V. A vintage phono preamp will have an out of 500mV or less. Of course that means the following input stage such as a tape loop will also have a matching level of sensitivity which is low and by that I mean quite sensitive compared to modern day standards. I see on your Sansui models line level input sensitivity is quite a low 180mV.

So, a rather low level output to the Surround Master means the input level can be adjusted up quite a ways with out clipping. But the SM also has gain. It means it could be delivering quite a high signal level to the Sansui tape inputs.

My advice, keep the input level high on the SM if it is not clipping. The output level controls have a +- 6dB range. Turn those down to accommodate. And of course you have master volume controls on the Sansui's, yes? Adjust those also to get the desired sound level output.

Have fun! The Surround Master is a magic box & well worth experimenting to get the most out of it.

Hey SW, great answer! I did say “may” which was meant to imply everything you said above.
Did I mention we like to have fun around here

 

[Argou]

Hey SW, great answer! I did say “may” which was meant to imply everything you said above.
Did I mention we like to have fun around here

Pupster you gonna have a lot of fun with my English and my ignorance in electronics , plus I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote
You just need to tolerate me a little until I have a few questions answered as simple as possible , then I can go back in my cave and only observe what you all post
Just a little more

 

[~dave~~wave~]

... I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote

The preview icon is your friend.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Pupster you gonna have a lot of fun with my English and my ignorance in electronics , plus I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote
You just need to tolerate me a little until I have a few questions answered as simple as possible , then I can go back in my cave and only observe what you all post
Just a little more

you can also go back (maybe within a few days) and edit your post from the Edit link; I have to utilize that one frequently.

Also, any music that you're liking through your SMv3?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Pupster you gonna have a lot of fun with my English and my ignorance in electronics , plus I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote
You just need to tolerate me a little until I have a few questions answered as simple as possible , then I can go back in my cave and only observe what you all post
Just a little more

Your English is fine & I can tell your one of the "good guys". No need to retreat into your cave. Stick around and join the fun!

 

[Beefalo]

Pupster you gonna have a lot of fun with my English and my ignorance in electronics , plus I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote
You just need to tolerate me a little until I have a few questions answered as simple as possible , then I can go back in my cave and only observe what you all post
Just a little more

 

[esimms86]

Pupster you gonna have a lot of fun with my English and my ignorance in electronics , plus I have significant difficulty’s understand how I post -reply -quote
You just need to tolerate me a little until I have a few questions answered as simple as possible , then I can go back in my cave and only observe what you all post
Just a little more

No problem @Argou, great to see you posting; as they say, don’t be a stranger(in other words, post again soon)! And if you think that your English is problematic, consider our command of Danish LOL!

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I will experiment like this to figure out the most about the SM but then I will hook it up to my QS100 and use it as a control panel “ as you have suggested at some point “
I have bypassed the internal amp of the QS100 by tapping the signal right after is decoded ( see picture below )

I have owned the Sansui QS-01 and the QS-500B. The QS-01 has beautiful looks but the 500B had built in rear channel amps. Your QS-100 is a nice blend between the two.

What all three have in common is the earliest of early Sansui decoders. To pair a Surround Master with this, and be able to switch back & forth, would be very interesting. I look forward to your comparisons!