SMART INVOLVE ENCODE- test tones!!

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chucky3042

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
2,700
Last edited:
Dear all

Dave the Bitch made these test tones today recorded in "Intelligent Involve" format (or as we call it smarty bottom format). Its different frequencies in the sequence of

Left Rear
Left Front
Right Front
Left Rear.

Enjoy, do what I did first and play it on stereo headphones......sounds just like plane old vanilla stereo to lil ol me.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13wCsjTcBCouMpB2KKDVMlAvkhyeg2ahe/view?usp=sharing
I don't know what Google Drive is, but apparently I don't have access to it.
They need to re-assign Permissions for "Everyone", it's not you @Soundfield , it's them!
 
I don't know what Google Drive is, but apparently I don't have access to it.
Err yeah, I am a google drive idiot, I tried to get everyone access last night but apparently I have to give permission (which I have to a few). Will talk to my google weenie today and get general access to everyone. Bugger!
 
Um try it now, it should work ?????????
Yes Chuck, here's how it looks in Foobar2000

*edit, wait where's the cover pic ;)

Involve Test Tones.jpg
 
Dear All

I was misinformed by Dave the Bitch the sample track above was in DUMB fixed parameter Involve format- OOOPS sorry chaps.

OK here is a link to 4 test tones, sine waves in smart and fixed encode, and pink noise in smart and fixed encode, for your delight.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nfYC3dS0MfMgO_CQ8BEeVRMHCTRPlFid?usp=sharing
I think I have been a good boy this time and made it available to all, if not kick my fat lazy butt.

To cut a long story short here below is a screenshot of Dumb fixed parameter Involve encode in tone packets:

1599053881144.png


RL..................................................................................FL.......................................................................FR.......................................................................RR.........................................

As you can see the blend/ mix is 0.21 in magnitude meaning in stereo its around 13.5 db separation, remember my 12 db is all you can detect rule, don't believe me try it! When you decode it into surround you get a MINIMUM of 12 db separation in all directions. I cannot find the decode results tonight- give me a day or two. Advantage is it sounds normal for stereo and surround - providing you are not in a numbers pissing contest that we have never been!

Hey on a QS source signal we get 35 - 40 db separation in all directions but the downside is the stereo QS encode sounds compressed in terms of image to a puny 6 - 8 db or so.

So below is a screenshot of SMART Involve encode variable parameter packet tone:

1599055273052.png


RL........................................................................FL......................................................................FR..........................................................................RR........................................

Spot the difference?
The mix/ blend increases to a peak value of 0.41 only when surround (rear ) information is present. If its just plan old boring bog vanilla stereo the encode reduces the blend parameter to the lower extreme 0.21. Now you gotta remember its doing this in a triband manner so when one frequency band might have surround but another might just be stereo - at all times we are adjusting the psychoacoustic parameters of the matrix. Please note that us humans are really bad at perceiving multiple directions of SIMULTANEOUS similar frequency band tones so in those instances we need all the help we can get in terms of matrix separation (also thats the hardest thing for a matrix encoder to split up ) . On normal music where things are peaking all over the place in different frequency bands at different times both human hearing can separate well and the matrix encoders eat it for breakfast.

So SMART Involve encode is the first (to my knowledge) variable mix encode parameter triband encoder. The end result is that the stereo sounds like stereo and the separation (worst case) is below:

1599056106513.png


The bottom one is Smart involve encode, as you can see you get a theoretical worst case separation of 12 db front to rear in 2 instances but in practice it never really happens as these tests were on FIXED TONES - not music where the full 0.41 parameter would be mostly in use and so the actual overall result would be the average of the two above separation tables. Hope you guys get my point, I know its confusing and my head also hurts this time of night (12.30 am ).

Oh its all patented - full PCT in multiple countries!!!

Nigh Nigh
 

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Dear All

I was misinformed by Dave the Bitch the sample track above was in DUMB fixed parameter Involve format- OOOPS sorry chaps.

OK here is a link to 4 test tones, sine waves in smart and fixed encode, and pink noise in smart and fixed encode, for your delight.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nfYC3dS0MfMgO_CQ8BEeVRMHCTRPlFid?usp=sharing
I think I have been a good boy this time and made it available to all, if not kick my fat lazy butt.

To cut a long story short here below is a screenshot of Dumb fixed parameter Involve encode in tone packets:

View attachment 55844

RL..................................................................................FL.......................................................................FR.......................................................................RR.........................................

As you can see the blend/ mix is 0.21 in magnitude meaning in stereo its around 13.5 db separation, remember my 12 db is all you can detect rule, don't believe me try it! When you decode it into surround you get a MINIMUM of 12 db separation in all directions. I cannot find the decode results tonight- give me a day or two. Advantage is it sounds normal for stereo and surround - providing you are not in a numbers pissing contest that we have never been!

Hey on a QS source signal we get 35 - 40 db separation in all directions but the downside is the stereo QS encode sounds compressed in terms of image to a puny 6 - 8 db or so.

So below is a screenshot of SMART Involve encode variable parameter packet tone:

View attachment 55847

RL........................................................................FL......................................................................FR..........................................................................RR........................................

Spot the difference?
The mix/ blend increases to a peak value of 0.41 only when surround (rear ) information is present. If its just plan old boring bog vanilla stereo the encode reduces the blend parameter to the lower extreme 0.21. Now you gotta remember its doing this in a triband manner so when one frequency band might have surround but another might just be stereo - at all times we are adjusting the psychoacoustic parameters of the matrix. Please note that us humans are really bad at perceiving multiple directions of SIMULTANEOUS similar frequency band tones so in those instances we need all the help we can get in terms of matrix separation (also thats the hardest thing for a matrix encoder to split up ) . On normal music where things are peaking all over the place in different frequency bands at different times both human hearing can separate well and the matrix encoders eat it for breakfast.

So SMART Involve encode is the first (to my knowledge) variable mix encode parameter triband encoder. The end result is that the stereo sounds like stereo and the separation (worst case) is below:

View attachment 55849

The bottom one is Smart involve encode, as you can see you get a theoretical worst case separation of 12 db front to rear in 2 instances but in practice it never really happens as these tests were on FIXED TONES - not music where the full 0.41 parameter would be mostly in use and so the actual overall result would be the average of the two above separation tables. Hope you guys get my point, I know its confusing and my head also hurts this time of night (12.30 am ).

Oh its all patented - full PCT in multiple countries!!!

Nigh Nigh
1599061833685.gif
 
So the first set of tones posted have been disabled in Google drive after you posted the second set?
Could not download.jpg
 
I've been playing these through the basic RM decoder in my kenwood 9940, it treats them exactly like QS(both smart and "dumb"). The basic RM seperation is hilarious, for example, a tone in RL on the 9940 results as FR vu meter down, FL+ RR vu meters straight up and RL is 3db higher, and so on in all directions. If the tones included the 4 phantom centers(8 positions) it would be a more complete/interesting comparison between the smart and "dumb" encodings.
 
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