Songs CHANGED in Quad/5.1

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Quad Linda

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Several songs have something radically different in Quad/5.1 Sure, we know the mixes are different. There are those rare occasions when something has been added or subtracted, lyrics are different, or a different take has been used. Please list the song(s), artist and album they are taken from, as well as the difference(s.)

Yes, I Will Neil Diamond from Serenade SQ CQ 32919/Q8 CAQ 32919 2:36 - 2:59 is an instrumental passage in 2ch. It becomes a vocal in Quad.

Lady Magdelene Neil Diamond from Serenade SQ CQ 32919/Q8 CAQ 32919 0:22 - 0:45 "The man in between waits between the two" is how the 2ch version starts. The quad version becomes "The man in between stands within the two."

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We will be like one with the last Picasso.
 
Mott the Hoople's "The Hoople" has a markedly different mix in the Quad version.

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It's been a while since I pulled it out and listened to the 4 channel version so I won't attempt to give specifics, but the tracks were so different from the stereo mix that it bordered on disconcerting.
 
EAQ31584 Edgar Winter Group - They Only Come Out At Night

Probably one of the most popular quad albums ever released contains a timing difference during 'Frankenstein' in terms of the entrance of the ARP synthesizer sequence. The quad version starts several seconds before the stereo version.

TRIVIA: Excerpts of Frankenstein have been heard as early as his debut album Entrance in 1970. Great album, highly recommended.
 
This is a very cool thread! Off the top of my head:

"Us and them" by Pink Floyd. The quad mix contains an extra bit of that amazing saxophone intro I love so much. Pretty significant change when you've spent 30 years listening to the stereo version. There are several other changes between quad and stereo on the Dark Side album, too, as you guys probably all know. Like, Speak to me sounds different during the climax (something is missing, can't really put my finger on what it is), and On the Run is different, too (I think the maniacal laughter at the end is missing, among some other stuff).

Then, there are the changes done to Wish you were here (the album). Some stuff was extended, some stuff was different (there's a small piano bit towards the end of Shine on you crazy Diamond - first half, which is present in the stereo mix and absent in the quad. Check out this short film where Guthrie talks about it: http://www.pinkfloydz.com/missingpiano.htm). But the changes were really subtle, it took me a while to actually recognize the extended parts ans I know WYWH quite as well as DSOTM.

Apparently, the quad mixes of the Barbra Streisand albums feature alternate takes, too, but you need to listen closely. I don't know the stereo versions of these albums, but fell in love with the quad mix of "Barbra Joan Streisand".

"The Streisand Quadraphonic albums are also interesting from an artistic point of view. To some listeners the difference between a Quad and non-Quad track may be undetectable. To others it is fascinating to hear Barbra’s studio technique – how she alters her phrasing of a song with each take; how she sings new notes and tries new “readings” of a song."

- From http://barbra-archives.com/record/albums/barbra_joan_streisand_quad.html
 
Also...

Santana - Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen. There are shouts/cheers in the quad mix that are absent from the stereo version.
Santana - Open Invitation. The ending echoes sound different in quad (as they wander around the room, which is pretty cool).

Steely Dan - Do it again. The quad mix is missing about 20 seconds from the long instrumental part in the middle. Note I never listened to the stereo version of that album, but I have the full edit of "Do it again" on the "Best of" CD. Perhaps it's also shorter on the stereo version of the album? If so, I'm really not sure why that is, does anybody know?

Aretha Franklin - Chain of Fools and Rock Steady. According to the Rhino page:

"THE BEST OF ARETHA FRANKLIN (QUADRAPHONIC MIX) contains 12 tracks, including an extended version of “Rock Steady” with music by the Memphis Horns that was cut from the stereo version and can only be heard in this Quadraphonic mix. The disc also includes a rare version of “Chain Of Fools” with an extended introduction. This version was released in stereo in 1995 as part of Rhino’s expanded edition of Lady Soul."
 
RE: The mixes themselves and the inclusion of outtakes or outtake-elements.

As we all know - Quadraphonic was often thought of as the first foray into the world of Alternate Masters, Extra Tracks and Other Bonus Material that we know today due to the highermarket saturation of multi-channel audio, via DVD and Blu-Ray compared to the LP, Quad Reel and Q-8.

And just like in DVD and Blu-Ray productions today, new 70's Quad remixes of material from the mid-to-late 60's often featured previously-unheard portions of the original session tape such as an extended intro or outro, a lengthened or alternate solo, or other additional sweetening which was recorded, but deemed unsuitable for the final record for one reason or the other.

Similar to whole songs ``left on the cutting room floor'' which appear on modern box sets after an artist passes away these ``outtake elements'' often change the entire mood or presentation of the piece - and may have been why they were originally left off.

But now - similar to re-assembling a classic film with supplemetal material that was also deemed unsuitable for the original release for one reason or the other - it's interesting to see and/or hear what some of the original ideas came from which had been bandied about in the studio by artists and producers - and then hear the final form these ideas took on the original record.

Who can forget the proposal scene with Judy Garland and James Mason in A Star is Born (1954) that we had to wait 30 years to see?

An alternate master shot of the intro that was itself deemed too long from a number that ended up being cut entirely http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_VhF87MuqE and with the closeups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K26MNumr9po.

Look at the feel of the outtake introduction - it's done in a very effortless even offhand manner compared to the take they used. She looks bored and tired. This performance is phoned in and suggests that Esther really didn't care one way or another about anything she was doing or anybody she was around. Couple that with the proposal half of the scene and it's almost jarring when she says Yes. Compare that with the take they used - and she almost spoon-feeds you the plot there for four minutes and a half.

Compare that to the intro they used - filmed a week later - and the performance is alive and electric. Me - I like the outtake intro better - for just exactly that reason - that the viewer is then surprised when she takes Norman up on his proposal later..

A whole performance as well as alternates. Just thrown into the garbage like that for ``lack of space'' in the vault because some cubicle warrior got a hair under their collar. Saved from an untimely demise by a crotchety old codger who used to sweep up after productions.

Regarding remixing from original sources and the quality or lack thereof:

The new mix might SOUND like 5.1 - but that's just because of a little bit of electronic trickery. In 1968 very few rock-and-roll acts were recorded on anything more than 3 or 4 track half-inch tape. The vast majority of 8-track 1-inch sessions held at any major label in those days was reserved for huge-budget classical and Broadway acts.

(The following is a brief primer of 60's recording practices in case there's any newbies reading this. Everybody else - skip to the bottom.)

So - with only 3 or 4 tracks to work with - about the only thing a modern mixing engineer can do is to take different recorded elements and pan them to the different tracks and back, or else take a Left-minus-Center and a Center-minus Right signal out and use that as the ``surrounds'' - or do the same thing three times in the case of a 4-track.

The only two saving elements that could give you any more elements than that is:

The best arrangers of the period knew that they only had a small number of tracks to work with - and arranged their instrumental assignments to the three or four tracks accordingly to maximize the use - merging more than one instrument which didn't play at the same time onto one track.

Since arrangers of the period also usually left a bar or two of silence inbetween where one instrument on a track left off and another started, once in awhile a modern engineer can separate out those passages, isolate them on their own digital tracks and manipulate as needed.

Since most rock and pop records of the late 60's and early 70's still came out in mono, a more common way to do that was - if a project happened to have one or more overdub sessions attached to it.

Since, as we said - eight-track one-inch sessions in the 60's for rock and pop acts were kind of hard to come by if not impossible - the only other thing to do would be to split the session up over multiple reels of 3-track or 4-track in the following manner:

1. The basic band tracks would be recorded on one reel of 3 or 4 tracks.
2. They'd go on recording until they got a take they liked.
3. That take would be mixed to mono and laid onto a second reel on a second machine leaving two or three tracks open.
4. Additional soloists, sidemen, effects and sometimes background vocals would be added.
5. The additions would then be mixed to mono on their own track and flown over along with a second-generation copy of the original session to a third reel being recorded back on the first machine, leaving one or two open (depending on 3-track or 4-track).
6. Then the lead vocalist or instrumentalist and/or their track harmonizing with themselves would be added last and then
7. the final mono (or even stereo) mixdown would be performed from that third-stage tape.

So if you ever run across a stereo mix that has the lead in the center, basic tracks on the left and sweetening on the right - that's why - and was about all they could do to remix in stereo for productions that did not have stereo in mind when they were recorded.

Now, in the 60's and 70's, even up to the late 90's, technology hadn't caught up to the point yet where an engineer could successfully lift tracks from the first and second stage tapes, sync them up to the third stage and remix for stereo.

Which is why for a lot of years, remix engineers would simply take just the isolated vocal or soloist track off the third stage tape, write and record a whole new session of digital backing tracks, and then remix to stereo.

Well a few bright young men in the early 2000's discovered that all these different stage-tapes could be locked up to themselves similar to the way film tracks on different media are locked up. Unfortunately however, in the early days of digital sync, it was all manual, often requiring hundreds of hours and thousands of edits just to be able to sync up the stage tapes to one three-minute song sufficiently enough to where the record-buying public would never know the number would have been re-assembled from so many sources.

Nowadays it's a lot easier - though still far from perfect.

All modern magnetic tape made after 1946 is recorded with a supersonic bias tone on the original tape to help increase the fidelity of the recording. However, this bias tone does not carry over with the music when dubs are made.

So, the modern engineer with access to all the original session masters can now send this bias tone through a reader, which will then correct for most of the miniscule and continuously-variable speed deviations inherent in the original recording, allowing it to very closely resemble sprocketed film for being able to maintain a much closer approxximation of rock-solid sync than you could ever get by hand, even after transferring ``wild'' (without sync) and spending hundreds of hours in front of the computer trying to correct for all the speed variations.

Once that's done, then the modern engineer can remix, just as if the original session had been recorded on 1-inch 8-track tape - and none but the most discerning listener will be able to tell that this new production was achieved in such a manner.

The definition of the terms of Digitally Extracted Stereo or Digitally Constructed Stereo which are used to describe the processes, can be found in a brief primer which can be found at the following link over on the BSN Stereo Chat forums to which many QQ members also belong.

http://bsnpubs.websitetoolbox.com/post/Unconventional-Stereo-Terminology-216267

For the newbies, membership is free, however board threads and posts are no longer visible to non-members due to the high volume of unrelated ``browser'' traffic that has occurred, driving up the cost of maintaining the website, which Mike does out of his own pocket as a community service.
 
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Great Thread!

On the Wish You Were Here Quad, the most dramatic departure comes at the end of Have A Cigar, where there are several bars of the closing guitar solo that are absent from the stereo release. For years I have been blowing minds of hardcore Floyd Heads by playing them this section. When you know the solo note for note, as most Floyd hardcores would, this extra bit sticks out like a ripe plumb (as opposed to a sore thumb). The solo then proceeds to last longer after the swoosh to mono.

On the Steely Dan song Reelin In The Years there is a noticeably different guitar take used for some of the fills between vocals.

On the Jethro Tull track Aqualung there is a different and noticible guitar track used.

These are my faves off the top of my head!

Ken
 
Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon -- 5.1 -- there's a moog bass note or two missing from 'Any Colour You Like'. I *think* it's there in the Parsons mix, but haven't really checked lately.


Deep Purple Machine Head -- a chunk of the 'Lazy' guitar solo is missing in some Quad versions. Present in the 5.1 DVDA
 
The accidental preservation/ "theft" of discarded film fragments and music leftovers would make a fascinating book. These custodians, rabid collectors, and others have done a service for posterity over the short sighted business decisions of the original owners.
If you will recall, Anthology 2 has a musical fragment from a partially erased tape from a Beatles session.
 
Do you realize that "It's Summertime" is an extended version on the DVD-A of Yoshimi by The Flaming Lips!!!! There is a new guitar solo as well... :cool:
 
Lots of little bits added into the Greg Penny 5.1 mixes of Elton albums, including..

- added effects in "Jamaica Jerk Off" on the GYBR SACD/DVDA (including Bernie shouting in his best cod-West Indian accent.. "Watch out now!"),

- new guitar parts by Caleb Quaye in "Where to now St.Peter" on the Tumbleweed SACD,

- longer version "Razor Face", with extended jam, on the Madman SACD.

There are others, that's just a few examples off the top of my head.
 
the track "Coming Soon" on the DTS DVDA of Queens' "The Game" is a completely different take and mix to the original LP, with different vocals, etc.
 
There are some different vocal tracks on "Late for the Sky" by Jackson Browne. I don't remember them specifically, but there are a couple of times where in the stereo he goes "up", he stays the same or goes down on the quad (or is it the other way around). Nothing spectacular, but different none the less. It's been a while since I played either version.
 
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells - The extra Sailors Hornpipe bit at the end.... I was reminded by seeing him at the opening cermony of the Olympics!!

There are other changes also..
 
Sly & The Family Stones' Greatest Hits could have an entire thread dedicated to it. But for starters:
I wanna take you Higher - organ track is muted, piano track used in Quad; piano track muted, organ track used in stereo.
Dance to the Music - unedited studio take. Quad omits the first round of background singers after the intro.

Chicago - 25 or 6 to 4 (from Greatest Hits album) has extra guitar flourishes throughout the song.




ndiamone: I realize you worked in the business, but by 1968, MANY popular/R&R acts were using 8 track or better equipment. Many Columbia acts had been using 1" 8-track by 1965, and by 1968, Blood, Sweat & Tears were one of the first to use 16-track equipment. Many Atlantic controlled studios had been using 8-track recorders since the first one had been installed in New York in 1958. 3-track had gone the way of the dodo by '65 and was only really being used in the most bargain basement type studios. 4-track was the norm at pretty much ANY studio.
 
And, of course, Sly's Greatest was mixed for Quad from multitrack masters. The prior stereo release was electronically rechanneled. Even if you are only capable of reproducing stereo LP's, the Quad album is the one to own.

Sly & The Family Stones' Greatest Hits could have an entire thread dedicated to it. But for starters:
I wanna take you Higher - organ track is muted, piano track used in Quad; piano track muted, organ track used in stereo.
Dance to the Music - unedited studio take. Quad omits the first round of background singers after the intro...

adeb_2.JPG
 
Alternate takes:
Jethro Tull/Aqualung - Wind Up
Country Joe & The Fish/Greatest Hits - Here I Go Again
Jefferson Airplane/Worst Of (and/or Volunteers) - Volunteers, Frederick
Extended versions:
John Lennon/Walls & Bridges - Steel And Glass
 
The Moonbeam Song and Jump into the Fire from Nilsson Schmillson RCA CD-4/Q4/Q8:

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You're So Vain from No Secrets - Carly Simon CD-4/Q4/Q8 When she sings "one of them was me," she goes up on the "of."

ea41509e2Dcd032D40f72Dad562Dcf93d96a1f2bcarlyd.jpg
I STILL say the cover looks best in CD-4!
 
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