Steve Hackett - "Wolflight" (New Solo Album)

[rtbluray]

To anyone complaining about the surround mix on this release:

It was made well-known on this forum that the surround mix was being done by Roger King.
It was also made well-known that he was the one that mixed the abysmal surround mix of "Squackett", so there was a warning that the quality of the "Wolflight" surround mix could be very suspect.

We all purchase things that we later come to regret buying or end up having no good use for.
If you're experiencing buyers' remorse from the "Wolflight" surround mix, then sell it, give it to someone else, or put it away.

We all know now that the surround mix is not all that it's cracked up to be, so future buyers should tread carefully, that way we can put up with a minimal amount of negative posts concerning this release in the future.

If you need something else to listen to in the meantime, why not check out my surround mixes posted for free download on this forum?
If after listening to those mixes your ears hurt and you want something else to listen to, I can recommend several new surround releases to ease the pain.

Thanks for reading.

 

[grill]

To anyone complaining about the surround mix on this release:

It was made well-known on this forum that the surround mix was being done by Roger King.
It was also made well-known that he was the one that mixed the abysmal surround mix of "Squackett", so there was a warning that the quality of the "Wolflight" surround mix could be very suspect.

We all purchase things that we later come to regret buying or end up having no good use for.
If you're experiencing buyers' remorse from the "Wolflight" surround mix, then sell it, give it to someone else, or put it away.

We all know now that the surround mix is not all that it's cracked up to be, so future buyers should tread carefully, that way we can put up with a minimal amount of negative posts concerning this release in the future.

If you need something else to listen to in the meantime, why not check out my surround mixes posted for free download on this forum?
If after listening to those mixes your ears hurt and you want something else to listen to, I can recommend several new surround releases to ease the pain.

Thanks for reading.

I feel no pain but just sorrow. This album is so good to my taste that I feel sad that the official surround mix has been done this way. Our world has lost an excellent album imho.

 

[peterzach]

I am still waiting for my copy as I still find some positives about this release based on what people have said so far about the songwriting and fact this appears to be mixed/mastered well.
As Ryan(rtbluray) has said we new going in this was going to be a inept surround based on what Roger King has done so far, or should I say not done.
What's the stereo version on the bluray like?

peter

 

[César]

Hi. I bought the Blu-ray impulsively when I saw it in Fnac Madrid. I was so happy to see a surround release in a generalist store like this that I couldn't resist.
I listened first to the stereo PCM @ 48/24 on headphones and was hooked to the album immediately. Peter, the stereo mix is worthy the money though I must admit there's not a big difference between the CD and the high res stream. The stereo mix is good and mastered at a rather low volume. On my setup, this record really shines when played out loud!
Surround mix is not a surround mix, so don't buy it expecting it to be any good. It's like Norah Jones Come away with me SACD...

What I can't understand is the rationale behind this release. Did we get the bluray with the fake surround just to be able to boost the sales in our audiophile market?
I could understand such a move made by a musician not used to 5.1 mixing but, come on, SH must have listened to Genesis surround mixes... And now Steven Wilson is mixing or has mixed at least Voyage of the Acolyte. How can anyone after having listened to a Wilson's mix allow this fake to be released? Can't understand it, honestly

 

[jsulzinger]

The autographed cover alone is worth my money so no love lost...

 

[keenly]

To anyone complaining about the surround mix on this release:

It was made well-known on this forum that the surround mix was being done by Roger King.
It was also made well-known that he was the one that mixed the abysmal surround mix of "Squackett", so there was a warning that the quality of the "Wolflight" surround mix could be very suspect.

We all purchase things that we later come to regret buying or end up having no good use for.
If you're experiencing buyers' remorse from the "Wolflight" surround mix, then sell it, give it to someone else, or put it away.

We all know now that the surround mix is not all that it's cracked up to be, so future buyers should tread carefully, that way we can put up with a minimal amount of negative posts concerning this release in the future.

If you need something else to listen to in the meantime, why not check out my surround mixes posted for free download on this forum?
If after listening to those mixes your ears hurt and you want something else to listen to, I can recommend several new surround releases to ease the pain.

Thanks for reading.

How about WE, the consumer voice our opinions instead? Being a sycophant helps nobody. The only way progression is made is by us articulating our thoughts and complaints towards the relevant parties.

Mr King ruined this release. Steve left it in his hands and he butchered it. The 5.1 mix is not even in surround. It is non existent.

Just posting thoughts on forums achieves nothing, and silence is consent. Make your voice known. That way if Steve Hackett blesses us with a surround release again, next time it will likely be much better. Tweet, facebook, email.

 

[rtbluray]

How about WE, the consumer voice our opinions instead? Being a sycophant helps nobody. The only way progression is made is by us articulating our thoughts and complaints towards the relevant parties.

Mr King ruined this release. Steve left it in his hands and he butchered it. The 5.1 mix is not even in surround. It is non existent.

Just posting thoughts on forums achieves nothing, and silence is consent. Make your voice known. That way if Steve Hackett blesses us with a surround release again, next time it will likely be much better. Tweet, facebook, email.

That still doesn't mean things will change for the better. The fact is Roger King has been associated with Steve Hackett for close to 2 decades, and as the co-producer of this album, if he wanted to mix it and Steve was willing, then so be it. Decisions are often made not for consumers' sake, but that's how it is.
But things are going to get better as Steven Wilson has already said that he's done some classic album remixing for Steve H for release this year.
And whatever they are, I will give them a chance as that sounds like a winning combination!

 

[keenly]

That still doesn't mean things will change for the better. The fact is Roger King has been associated with Steve Hackett for close to 2 decades, and as the co-producer of this album, if he wanted to mix it and Steve was willing, then so be it. Decisions are often made not for consumers' sake, but that's how it is.
But things are going to get better as Steven Wilson has already said that he's done some classic album remixing for Steve H for release this year.
And whatever they are, I will give them a chance as that sounds like a winning combination!

So we should accept any rubbish and not complain? By not saying anything you consent to receiving crap. King sucks, he is a terrible engineer.

 

[rtbluray]

So we should accept any rubbish and not complain? By not saying anything you consent to receiving crap. King sucks, he is a terrible engineer.

A terrible engineer? When it comes to surround, it seems so, but your comment is more of a blanket statement over all his engineering abilities.
Fact is, I don't think I've heard a single complaint about Wolflight's stereo mix and mastering. Most people seem to love it, so he's doing something right.

Not every engineer gets surround (or even certain aspects of surround) right, but those that do have certainly been giving us our money's worth.

 

[keenly]

A terrible engineer? When it comes to surround, it seems so, but your comment is more of a blanket statement over all his engineering abilities.
Fact is, I don't think I've heard a single complaint about Wolflight's stereo mix and mastering. Most people seem to love it, so he's doing something right.

Not every engineer gets surround (or even certain aspects of surround) right, but those that do have certainly been giving us our money's worth.

This thread is not about the others. It is about Wolflight. I did not comment on 2.0 mixes, I don't buy anything that is just stereo.

Just because there are other good surround mixes does not mean we should accept this crappola!

 

[peterzach]

What I can't understand is the rationale behind this release. Did we get the bluray with the fake surround just to be able to boost the sales in our audiophile market?
I could understand such a move made by a musician not used to 5.1 mixing but, come on, SH must have listened to Genesis surround mixes... And now Steven Wilson is mixing or has mixed at least Voyage of the Acolyte. How can anyone after having listened to a Wilson's mix allow this fake to be released? Can't understand it, honestly

Cesar, I have the same thoughts like you, wondering what SH's motivation is on putting out a non surround and selling it as a surround. After rereading the below I am even more confused, maybe Sh's hearing is way off or do we have a different mix then the one he heard? Well the Squakett was a disaster, the live albums he speaks of sound good but not true surround recordings. Now I am worried about SW mix as if its based on SH, maybe he just likes the BIG Stereo sound thinking thats what surround is.

taken from here:

http://islandzoneupdate.blogspot.ca/2014/10/steve-hackett-this-is-what-genius.html

SH: I do have a new one, I just finished it, and we’ve mixed it stereo, it’s been mixed in 5.1 (Surround Sound). I let Roger (King) get on with the 5.1 because I knew the process; there were so many balls in the air; it’ll be much better if you let me get on with it, and then come in and criticize and I didn’t have too many things to say about his mix of it. He reads my mind; he knows what I’m going to suggest. It’s got a lot of orchestral moments on it. It’s a rock album, but the big moments—if you can just surround us with those, and if it’s a big chorus, surround us with those, and the rest of it is splitting it up and he’s done a terrific job on the Surround Sound mix, so this will be the first solo Surround Sound mix of a studio album that I’ve ever done of a solo thing. I’ve done Surround Sound (mixes) of live gigs; we did a Surround Sound mix of the Squackett album, but basically the first time … so I know it’s a small elite niche market, but I figured that even if you don’t possess a Surround Sound system yourself, you’ll know a friend who does. All I would say is, it’s worth listening to that on someone else’s system, even if you don’t buy the album, because then you’ll get the feeling of being surrounded, and those musical ambushes I think work very well in Surround—the surprise factor of not just what is going to happen next, but where it’s going to come from. I do love that, I must admit!

 

[keenly]

Cesar, I have the same thoughts like you, wondering what SH's motivation is on putting out a non surround and selling it as a surround. After rereading the below I am even more confused, maybe Sh's hearing is way off or do we have a different mix then the one he heard? Well the Squakett was a disaster, the live albums he speaks of sound good but not true surround recordings. Now I am worried about SW mix as if its based on SH, maybe he just likes the BIG Stereo sound thinking thats what surround is.

taken from here:

http://islandzoneupdate.blogspot.ca/2014/10/steve-hackett-this-is-what-genius.html

SH: I do have a new one, I just finished it, and we’ve mixed it stereo, it’s been mixed in 5.1 (Surround Sound). I let Roger (King) get on with the 5.1 because I knew the process; there were so many balls in the air; it’ll be much better if you let me get on with it, and then come in and criticize and I didn’t have too many things to say about his mix of it. He reads my mind; he knows what I’m going to suggest. It’s got a lot of orchestral moments on it. It’s a rock album, but the big moments—if you can just surround us with those, and if it’s a big chorus, surround us with those, and the rest of it is splitting it up and he’s done a terrific job on the Surround Sound mix, so this will be the first solo Surround Sound mix of a studio album that I’ve ever done of a solo thing. I’ve done Surround Sound (mixes) of live gigs; we did a Surround Sound mix of the Squackett album, but basically the first time … so I know it’s a small elite niche market, but I figured that even if you don’t possess a Surround Sound system yourself, you’ll know a friend who does. All I would say is, it’s worth listening to that on someone else’s system, even if you don’t buy the album, because then you’ll get the feeling of being surrounded, and those musical ambushes I think work very well in Surround—the surprise factor of not just what is going to happen next, but where it’s going to come from. I do love that, I must admit!

Big Stereo? What the hell is that?

 

[LizardKing]

Try bumping up the rears and the center channel by about 7db (or more)...
Its better...the left & right channels are way to loud (relatively speaking).

 

[wavelength]

Big Stereo? What the hell is that?

Stereo in the fronts with ambiance in the rears. It's a term to describe faulty surround mixes. Instead of creating a surround experience, the mix actually sounds like stereo with depth - hence "Big Stereo". The term has been around for a while. I believe it's something that came out of forums rather than an industry term.

 

[fredblue]

Try bumping up the rears and the center channel by about 7db (or more)...
Its better...the left & right channels are way to loud (relatively speaking).

Front L&R compressed in mastering perhaps? I haven't got round to opening this one yet but I will later today.

On a related tangent, I gave the Bowie/Station To Station 5.1 a brief first listen yesterday and found much the same thing..

..whack up the rears and centre (essentially his dry lead vocal all in centre channel - amazing!) by an uncannily similarly large amount, 7-8db apiece and it gelled more.. though there was still obnoxious reverb in the rears.

Is there any way, after extracting the individual six channels, that one could reverse engineer such reverb in those two channels, de-compress front L&R, bump up levels in centre and rears and put it all back together again..???

 

[keenly]

Try bumping up the rears and the center channel by about 7db (or more)...
Its better...the left & right channels are way to loud (relatively speaking).

There's still nothing discrete in the rears! NOTHING. Just the same as fronts.

 

[keenly]

Front L&R compressed in mastering perhaps? I haven't got round to opening this one yet but I will later today.

On a related tangent, I gave the Bowie/Station To Station 5.1 a brief first listen yesterday and found much the same thing..

..whack up the rears and centre (essentially his dry lead vocal all in centre channel - amazing!) by an uncannily similarly large amount, 7-8db apiece and it gelled more.. though there was still obnoxious reverb in the rears.

Is there any way, after extracting the individual six channels, that one could reverse engineer such reverb in those two channels, de-compress front L&R, bump up levels in centre and rears and put it all back together again..???

The mastering is not that compressed at all. It simply is not a real 5.1 mix.

 

[fredblue]

The mastering is not that compressed at all. It simply is not a real 5.1 mix.

GRR..!! I'd send it back if I had the time. What's the music like?

 

[César]

GRR..!! I'd send it back if I had the time. What's the music like?

His most similar record is Out of the Tunnel's Mouth, in my opinion, being this one a bit more inspired. Maybe this gives you and idea

 

[LizardKing]

GRR..!! I'd send it back if I had the time. What's the music like?

I really like it. Very proggy. Much better musically than the Squackett "shmackett"...