Steven Wilson Steven Wilson. Is he better at surround than others? And why?

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Its Gregs brilliant mixing of Honky Chateau, that started me off on this surround roller coaster.

You know....this surround hobby brought me even closer to Elton's music....I liked him...but I was more of a "hits" guy back in the day...but when I started getting his surround titles it completely changed my opinion of him...some of the songs and albums I didn't give a second glance... were suddenly like finding lost gems...and whenever someone new would come on the forum I would recommend the EJ discs to them....that's if Adam didn't beat me to it(y)
 
You know....this surround hobby brought me even closer to Elton's music....I liked him...but I was more of a "hits" guy back in the day...but when I started getting his surround titles it completely changed my opinion of him...some of the songs and albums I didn't give a second glance... were suddenly like finding lost gems...and whenever someone new would come on the forum I would recommend the EJ discs to them....that's if Adam didn't beat me to it(y)

You and me both, and Tull, and SW.
And probably nearly 75% of my collection.
Cost me a bloomin fortune ..so it has.
And thoroughly enjoying every minute of it.:QQlove
 
Yes and what a superb, faithful job they are doing at DV.

oh how we must keep the faith while they are keeping faithful! (y) i just hope DV keep going at it long enough (and are able to secure the licencing for) all the Quad stuff I want them to do (screw everybody else! lets face it, its all about what i want! and i want the Isleys, the O'Jays, the Miracles, the Manhattans, Dave Mason, Wild Cherry, Edgar Winter fuel allowance, Earth Wind & Tempestuousness and their Mothers Fathers Sisters and Brothers on DV Quad SACDs at the very least -- or i'll thcweam and thcweam! :ROFLMAO:).. seriously, they've done an utterly amazing job so far, as i dust off the shelves and marvel at those Poco, RTF, TOP, Guess Who, Johnnie Taylor, Rick Derringer, Billy Paul, WR, Art Garfunkel steak house and Chase SACDs, i think "well just another hundred (or five) lovely old Quads to go DV and it'll have been a good job well done!!" :p
 
What Steven Wilson did with Rush "A Farewell To Kings" is testament to his genius. You couldn't do a "Columbia Quad" type mix with what's available on that album, and yet he took the sparse elements that were there and created a sonic wonder. Yes, he gets surround... he knows what elements will sound good spread to the side and rear surround fields... and this is important, but I think even more important (and more difficult to achieve) is his ability to create mixes that are sonically pleasing. You can crank his mixes and it's like crack for your ears... the low end massages the base of those cochlear hair cells while the high end tickles the tips... it's a party in the inner ear... everyone's grooving together and no one's getting tired. Obviously there are tons of great surround mixes by others, but few are as consistent and dependable in the quality of their output.
 
I have been a slight fan of this guy since early 2000’s, I was first introduced by the amazing music by Porcupine Tree, after that I have pretty much absorbed whatever this man takes on, including surround - he is the very reason why I found this site. Everything from watching him live when he’s over here to read his playlists over the years (he has a VERY eclectic taste!), are reasons for which it’s safe to say that I admire the man.

I particularly love his approach to music, how the production part is almost an extended instrument in order to make a great record paired with his romanticism of the classic album format. As far as I know he’s pretty much self taught in everything so obviously a great talent combined with a genuine love for music and a hard work ethic, there is your man, one of the most important figures in the music industry today imo.
 
You know....this surround hobby brought me even closer to Elton's music....I liked him...but I was more of a "hits" guy back in the day...but when I started getting his surround titles it completely changed my opinion of him...some of the songs and albums I didn't give a second glance... were suddenly like finding lost gems...and whenever someone new would come on the forum I would recommend the EJ discs to them....that's if Adam didn't beat me to it(y)
Sheesh, it seems so long ago that the Elton John SACDs were released.
Always been an Elton fan from Tumbleweed on. Saw him twice in his absolute prime.
What they did was remind me of what a master of melody\songwriting & musicianship Elton is\was.
Rarely do his albums contain songs that are less than stellar.
It is criminal that Don't Shoot Me & Caribou have never been released and really quite mystifying but I learned ages ago never to underestimate the stupidity of music company execs.
Ever.
 
I’m more into classic rock than I am into prog rock. Steven Wilson is absolutely brilliant at mixing in surround but, once you get past Yes and a couple of Tull albums, my taste in music differs from his. That’s not a knock against SW; it’s just an honest statement about how his and my musical tastes diverge from each other. Subjectively speaking, I find Giles Martin to be equally brilliant when granted the freedom to do the kind of mix that he is capable of. Here, I’m obviously thinking Love and the White Album where the creative constraints were relaxed by his employers. I wonder how many other surround mixers would move up in the pantheon, as it were, if granted the same degree of creative freedom(and, perhaps, time and maybe other resources to optimally get the job done). We can only speculate since none of us is privy to all of the business and artistic agreements and limitations that can have profound effects on how a given project turns out in the end.

Where people like SW(and Giles?) pull away from the pack lies in their being such huge fans, so personally invested in the projects they take on.

I’m thrilled that the people who hire SW grant him the leeway to run with the ball. As an aside, I didn’t believe that This Was stood a snowball’s chance in hell of being anywhere near as good as it turned out. While it’s in no one’s surround top ten, it’s remarkable that SW was able to get so much out of so little(looking at it from the standpoint of an artist starting out with so few tracks to work from). Again, this is just my subjective opinion but I believe that, musically speaking, This Was is a lesser work compared to many others that SW has worked on. He almost certainly took on the assignment because he loves Tull but that wouldn’t change the fact that it’s always great to start out with the best musical material.
 
Steven Wilson is the best! Here's why:

-He's remixed almost 50 classic albums in surround sound over an almost 10 year span, plus he has around 15 surround releases centered around his own music (Porcupine Tree, no-man, Storm Corrosion, Blackfield, and solo work). Who else has been as prolific as he has in the modern surround age?!
-He's not afraid to go for it and create such immersive and discrete mixes that have truly raised the bar.
-When it specifically comes to remixing classic albums, he's really good at not messing up what was so great about the original sound of these albums but he just enhances them in exactly the right way.

The glory days of his remixing work are definitely reaching an end it appears, but there's still some good things left to come! There's at least one more Jethro Tull remix in the works ("Stormwatch"), plus the unreleased 5.1 mix of "The Seeds of Love" (from Tears for Fears) and more from XTC too!

:)
 
I went back to fredblue’s list and came up with the following three names of candidates for potentially/arguably being equal or better than Steven Wilson. Keep in mind that these guy’s worked in the golden era of quad; it is unarguable that they were among the few who virtually wrote the template for how to mix in quad. Also keep in mind that these gentlemen produced their work from 1972 to 1978 at the outside.

Larry Keyes
Ray Moore
Don Young

Between them they had a hand in over 100 quad titles, also spanning a number of musical genres(the same guy mixing E. Power Biggs and Miles Davis? Really?!).

Bob Clearmountain, though not at all prolific in this area, gets special mention for having two quad mixes in the 70’s and Big Pink in 2018(something like a 43 year span!).
 
Keep in mind that these guy’s worked in the golden era of quad; it is unarguable that they were among the few who virtually wrote the template for how to mix in quad. Also keep in mind that these gentlemen produced their work from 1972 to 1978 at the outside.

Larry Keyes
Ray Moore
Don Young

The thing you have to remember about the CBS quad guys is that the SQ matrix system Columbia was using on their quad vinyl influenced the way they would mix in quad. They were essentially forced to make those totally dry four-corner discrete mixes, as that was the only way they'd encode and then decode properly (in theory). If Columbia hadn't used SQ, who knows what mixing route they would've gone in?
 
...When it specifically comes to remixing classic albums, he's really good at not messing up what was so great about the original sound of these albums but he just enhances them in exactly the right way...

Just as an example, if a bass guitar part was a bit too quiet in the mix in some parts and maybe too loud in others, a lot of mixers might just throw on some light compression, but Steven Wilson would probably just fade up the bass for the quieter parts and fade down the louder parts. I like that. :smokin
 
The thing you have to remember about the CBS quad guys is that the SQ matrix system Columbia was using on their quad vinyl influenced the way they would mix in quad. They were essentially forced to make those totally dry four-corner discrete mixes, as that was the only way they'd encode and then decode properly (in theory). If Columbia hadn't used SQ, who knows what mixing route they would've gone in?

An excellent point, Jonathan. Out of sheer necessity, those 70's Quad engineers [especially working with the matrix SQ/QS formats] had to be more adventuresome and creative in order to make those mixes work.

But that's why I so admire both Wilson and Scheiner. They create mixes that unify and amplify both front and rear channels.....there's no turning around to hear if the rears are active or not because of the cohesiveness both employ front to back. And kudos likewise to Greg Penny for those excellent EJ remixes.....simply breathtaking. Giles Martin did somewhat acquit himself with The White Album remix but I still think LOVE was better...and certainly WARMER than the upper trebly White album AND Pepper.

And Eddie Kramer's Electric Ladyland remix blew me away. He truly captured the spirit and genius of Hendrix while managing to honor his original stereo mix.

IMO, it's a shame that more CURRENT jazz, rock and Pop albums don't receive the surround treatment in deference to classic and prog rock. There's a ton of great music being produced today with ONLY two channel and low fi consumption in mind. And keep in mind that some of these current albums MIGHT just become tomorrow's Classic Rock, Jazz and Pop albums and will surround remixing be around in the future to accommodate proper SURROUND remixes?

I certainly hope so!

And I'm really surprised that the current crop of artists across all genres are more concerned with releasing their output on vinyl rather than create surround mixes from scratch while their albums are in production. Are they that deaf to how much better their music would sound in surround rather than accommodating an older format ..... like vinyl?

While Movie Studios are ascending to 4K and 8K, instead of taking advantage of current technologies, Music Studios are ignoring 5.1, Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D upgrades content with giving us plain ole vanilla STEREO. BORING!

Really, what gives?
 
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SW's good but he's not the best.

Before you get the pitchforks out, what I mean is he may have the best mix of a particular album but the others (ES, Bob, etc) have the best mix of those other particular albums.

It's not like each mixer mixes every album and we get to choose.

IOW, no one is the best overall, just the best for what they have to work with.

I enjoy them all and hate them all for various reasons.
 
they've done an utterly amazing job so far, as i dust off the shelves and marvel at those Poco, RTF, TOP, Guess Who, Johnnie Taylor, Rick Derringer, Billy Paul, WR, Art Garfunkel steak house and Chase SACDs

:ROFLMAO: I wonder if Art's ever been to one?! Maybe he can pop in for some dinner after one of his gigs in April?!

I do think Steven Wilson is an absolutely fantastic producer, but for me Elliot Scheiner slightly edges it, just in terms of a catalogue of great sounding albums. It may just be that I prefer the content on the ELS mixes.

My fave Steven Wilson albums - Caravan, Aqualung, Simple Minds, Songs From The Big Chair, Roxy Music, XTC's and the Yes album(s)....

vs

My fave Elliot Scheiner albums - Hotel California, Sea Change, Homecoming, The Captain And Me, Black and White Night, R.E.M's, Blood On The Tracks, Flaming Lips, Moondance, Toto, Nightfly, Gaucho, Layla, GNR and there's still quite a few more...

If Steven Wilson were to tackle some more great albums that he'd be quite suitable for, thinking Hounds Of Love, A Rush Of Blood To The Head, The Queen Is Dead, The Cure, The Cult... I'd happily revisit...But it sounds like he's winding down his remixing work now?! :cry: At least we have The Seeds Of Love (soon please!) to look forward to... :phones
 
rtbluray's comment pretty much sums it up for me.

Given the sheer volume and quality of SW's remix work that I've purchased, I'd have to say he's the best.

He's given the world untold hours of surround listening enjoyment. Well, me anyway.

Sure, I'd prefer it if he upped the vocal/reduced the blaring guitars a smidge on some mixes (Misplaced Childhood), but I can monkey with the Yamaha's levels to get it close enough to how I like it.

Long may his interest and ears last. Even when he's too old to tour anymore, he'll probably still be fit enough to sit in his studio and smash out more surround gems. Bet he still has a full head of hair then too!
 
The thing you have to remember about the CBS quad guys is that the SQ matrix system Columbia was using on their quad vinyl influenced the way they would mix in quad. They were essentially forced to make those totally dry four-corner discrete mixes, as that was the only way they'd encode and then decode properly (in theory). If Columbia hadn't used SQ, who knows what mixing route they would've gone in?
True, but genius lies in the way that some people are able to demonstrate such creativity when working within strict limitations.
 
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