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Suggestions for Dutton Epoch Classical Multichannel SACDs

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ubertrout

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Anyone else notice that they seem to be heading a bit deeper into RCA's quad classical catalog with these releases? André Kostelanetz Plays the Music of Villa-Lobos & André Kostelanetz Conducts Music from Spain (pre-order) and Rózsa conducts Rózsa is already out. I've asked them if they plan on going deeper in this direction, which I for one would welcome - I'm much more interested in this than the elevator music stuff, good as the mixes may be.
 

fredblue

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Anyone else notice that they seem to be heading a bit deeper into RCA's quad classical catalog with these releases? André Kostelanetz Plays the Music of Villa-Lobos & André Kostelanetz Conducts Music from Spain (pre-order) and Rózsa conducts Rózsa is already out. I've asked them if they plan on going deeper in this direction, which I for one would welcome - I'm much more interested in this than the elevator music stuff, good as the mixes may be.
it's an interesting development, fwiw those two Kostelanetz Quads are Columbia back catalogue works not RCA and there's a rich catalogue of Quads under the Masterworks moniker, so it will be intriguing to see how this part of DV's Quad programme develops.

it does seem maybe a little mean-spirited in a way (and you're not the first QQ member to do so in this thread, I'm not having a go at you in particular) seeing music I love disparagingly referred to as elevator music.. but each to their own and if that's how you feel, fair enough just a bit off hand I think, that's all.
 

ubertrout

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it's an interesting development, fwiw those two Kostelanetz Quads are Columbia back catalogue works not RCA and there's a rich catalogue of Quads under the Masterworks moniker, so it will be intriguing to see how this part of DV's Quad programme develops.

it does seem maybe a little mean-spirited in a way (and you're not the first QQ member to do so in this thread, I'm not having a go at you in particular) seeing music I love disparagingly referred to as elevator music.. but each to their own and if that's how you feel, fair enough just a bit off hand I think, that's all.
Well, I'd absolutely be interested in any Columbia quads as well. The Kostelanetz stuff wouldn't be at the top of my list but I'd be glad to have it. There are a lot of Bernstein recordings amongst the Columbia quads if I'm not mistaken...

And I debated calling it that. I couldn't think of a better descriptor, though, in that a lot of the music of that instrumental pop covers genre was, in fact, played in elevators and other public spaces. Obviously a quad surround system is (generally) not an elevator.
 

fredblue

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Well, I'd absolutely be interested in any Columbia quads as well. The Kostelanetz stuff wouldn't be at the top of my list but I'd be glad to have it. There are a lot of Bernstein recordings amongst the Columbia quads if I'm not mistaken...

And I debated calling it that. I couldn't think of a better descriptor, though, in that a lot of the music of that instrumental pop covers genre was, in fact, played in elevators and other public spaces. Obviously a quad surround system is (generally) not an elevator.
yes! there's a fair number of Columbia Masterworks Quads, interesting and varied catalogue.. Classical, Opera, Ballet, Musicals, solo piano/guitar, ensemble, brass, choral, light Classical.. all sorts of stuff.. E Power Biggs had a bunch all of his own that DV could do as 2-fers.. some of it easy-ish listening bordering on Classical goes Pop! (IDK what to call it!) and other things I've not got the foggiest how to categorise like Harry Partch and George Crumb! :eek: some of the mixes are more active than others but quite a cool cross-section.

true, I'll bet some of it was played in elevators, along with a ton of other Pop stuff, no doubt in gloriously tinny mono! here it all is in splendid Quad! how uplifting! :D

edit: Not 100% sure Partch was specifically on Masterworks I'll check later but he was on Columbia at one point possibly only briefly but for one album he was definitely in Quad..! Crumb was on Masterworks, now that's some pretty esoteric stuff going on, that whale song composition (name escapes me, "voice of the whale", maybe?), wow.. easy listening it ain't! (imho! :D )
 

ubertrout

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Yes, that Stokowski. As Wikipedia tells us:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Stokowski
By the way, his Mahler 2nd from the 70s was a quad recording, which RCA released in 1997 as a Dolby Surround CD. It would be nice to have it as a proper SACD - and the same Brahms 4th RCA used as a filler would make a great one here.

51GTQ6Z362L.jpg

Fun fact...Stokowski was at the premiere of Mahler's 8th Symphony, which Mahler himself conducted. His reputation as a Mahler conductor really began when he led the US premiere six years later.
 

ubertrout

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:yikes....not to sound disgruntled, but hopefully D~V WILL expand their musical horizons and dip their collective toes into more popular and jazzy fare...
One never knows, but I'd be very surprised if they did this. Dutton's roots are as a classical remastering label focusing on Michael Dutton's work restoring pre-tape classical recordings, and subsequently bloomed into a general classical re-release label, and then the largest part of their business became their own classical recordings, focusing heavily on British composers (if you look at their bestseller list, that's still a large part of them). They've never exhibited any interest in being Analogue Productions or an audiophile re-release label, audiophile as their products may be.

I have to imagine they have a nice deal with Sony regarding quad recordings where there are essentially no royalties to worry about, so they can afford to release these easy listening titles that I can't imagine will move even 5,000 units. And now Sony is giving them access to their top-tier classical quads (classical is a smaller market than pop, of course, but the Rubinstein/Ormandy and Stokowski Bach recordings have been some of the jewels of RCA's catalog for a long time); I'd rather hope Dutton will go deeper along these lines than risking the company on expensive pop licenses.

Meanwhile, I have zero interest in the Danny Davis stuff, but if they can get it out and turn a profit, then more power to them. Ditto any of the other easy listening stuff. Just don't let it get in the way of going deeper into classical.

It seems like Pentatone is dropping the ball on quad re-releases, they only have one on their schedule for this year so far, and it's a holdover from last year (admittedly it's one I'm very excited about - the Mozart Quintets set). It would be awesome if Dutton Epoch can pick up the slack on that front.
 

bmoura

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One never knows, but I'd be very surprised if they did this. Dutton's roots are as a classical remastering label focusing on Michael Dutton's work restoring pre-tape classical recordings, and subsequently bloomed into a general classical re-release label.

It seems like Pentatone is dropping the ball on quad re-releases, they only have one on their schedule for this year so far, and it's a holdover from last year (admittedly it's one I'm very excited about - the Mozart Quintets set). It would be awesome if Dutton Epoch can pick up the slack on that front.
A look at the current Dutton Vocalion catalog also shows a lot of what they refer to as "Easy, Light and Latin" which many would call Easy Listening music when it comes to their Stereo CD reissue releases.
So the Dutton Vocalion interest in the Easy and Light albums in 4 Channel Surround from the Sony Music tape vaults isn't a surprise at all. And it's a market niche that other reissue labels are not pursuing.

On Pentatone, the Pentatone founders came from Philips Classics when that label was disbanded and sold to Universal Music in the early days of SACD and DSD.
So their interest and subsequent licensing of the Philips Classics 4 Channel recordings that they created was not surprising. But those titles are likely to run out at some point.
The good news is that Pentatone continues to record and release new albums in Stereo and Surround DSD - as does the Polyhymnia group that was also a Philips spin-out on several classical music labels.
 

4-earredwonder

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A look at the current Dutton Vocalion catalog also shows a lot of what they refer to as "Easy, Light and Latin" which many would call Easy Listening music when it comes to their Stereo CD reissue releases.
So the Dutton Vocalion interest in the Easy and Light albums in 4 Channel Surround from the Sony Music tape vaults isn't a surprise at all. And it's a market niche that other reissue labels are not pursuing.

On Pentatone, the Pentatone founders came from Philips Classics when that label was disbanded and sold to Universal Music in the early days of SACD and DSD.
So their interest and subsequent licensing of the Philips Classics 4 Channel recordings that they created was not surprising. But those titles are likely to run out at some point.
The good news is that Pentatone continues to record and release new albums in Stereo and Surround DSD - as does the Polyhymnia group that was also a Philips spin-out on several classical music labels.
I believe this time around, D~V's current QUAD SACDs represented something for [almost] everyone and that if they continue on this trajectory, they will eventually find a perfect rhythm.

It's nigh impossible to please everyone, as Audio Fidelity quickly discovered with some of their [questionable] QUAD SACDs, but if D~V continues their QUAD program they will, IMO, carve out a comfortable niche for themselves.

American reissue companies cannot compete with D~V in terms of licensing agreement expenditures and as I will shout a thousand times......for what D~V is charging for their QUAD reissues and most especially their twofers, I'd say bring them on.....and on.

BTW, whatever happened to Pentatone's DGG QUAD reissues....which I thought were exceptional? Did Universal suddenly pull the plug and I agree with Brian that Pentatone continues to release high quality original mch SACDs along with BIS, TACET and Sono Luminus (spectacular and reasonably priced 'esoteric' BD~A/RBCD combos) and I especially applaud D~V for currently mining those 'once vaulted' QUAD classical catalogues of both RCA and Columbia (now, of course, SONY). How far behind can the EMI/ANGEL classical QUAD catalog be (numbering in the hundreds and ill~served by the poor vinyl of the period)?
 

ubertrout

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I believe this time around, D~V's current QUAD SACDs represented something for [almost] everyone and that if they continue on this trajectory, they will eventually find a perfect rhythm.

It's nigh impossible to please everyone, as Audio Fidelity quickly discovered with some of their [questionable] QUAD SACDs, but if D~V continues their QUAD program they will, IMO, carve out a comfortable niche for themselves.

American reissue companies cannot compete with D~V in terms of licensing agreement expenditures and as I will shout a thousand times......for what D~V is charging for their QUAD reissues and most especially their twofers, I'd say bring them on.....and on.

BTW, whatever happened to Pentatone's DGG QUAD reissues....which I thought were exceptional? Did Universal suddenly pull the plug and I agree with Brian that Pentatone continues to release high quality original mch SACDs along with BIS, TACET and Sono Luminus (spectacular and reasonably priced 'esoteric' BD~A/RBCD combos) and I especially applaud D~V for currently mining those 'once vaulted' QUAD classical catalogues of both RCA and Columbia (now, of course, SONY). How far behind can the EMI/ANGEL classical QUAD catalog be (numbering in the hundreds and ill~served by the poor vinyl of the period)?
They got access to the DGG vaults for 2015, and then for whatever reason they didn't get it the following year and went back to Philips recordings in 2016. The Mozart String Quintets with the Grumiaux Quartet were part of their 2016 slate, but apparently they needed more time for that release, so it's been pushed to 2017. The rest of their 2016 slate is here...it doesn't sound hugely exciting to me, but we'll see how things come: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases. It is exciting to finally be getting a high-res Elgar 'cello concerto, along with the Britten & Hindemith Violin Concertos and Mahler Song Cycles Disc.

I think if we've learned anything from quad releases is that the availability of tapes is very dependent on label, even if they're owned by the same company (as in the case of Philips and DG). I'd be surprised if Pentatone or DV get access to the EMI tapes now owned by Warner - and frankly there's so much good stuff in the Universal and Sony archives that I'm not so worried about it.
 

ubertrout

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Something I just realized is that Leonard Bernstein's Mass, recorded for Columbia, is an obvious candidate for re-release by D-V. Bernstein's mass is written to be heard in quad even in concert, complete with a prerecorded quadraphonic tape part, and the recording was made with quad listening in mind in 1971 with Bernstein conducting. It's a challenging piece, but interesting and very of its time. I'd also think the Bernstein Estate would be interested in supporting such a re-release so people can hear the recording the way Bernstein intended.
 

surroundophile

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I recently sent an email to D~V with some classical suggestions, to which I received no response. I'm listing them below in case they may be reading this web site. All of these are "surround spectaculars" (discreet):

Handel The Great Messiah Choruses /Mormon Tabernacle Choir /MQ 32935

Stars And Stripes Forever /Mormon Tabernacle Choir /MQ 32298

Boulez conducts Bartok Concerto for Orchestra /New York Philharmonic /MQ 32132 (be careful-Sony reissued this on MC SACD in the early 2000's, but remixed it to ambient rears. You need the original discreet surround QUAD master)

Antiphonal Music for Four Brass Choirs/ MQ 31289

Switched on Bach /Walter Carlos/ MQ 31018

Bach The Six Brandonburg Concertos/ Anthony Newman/ M2Q 31398

Music for Organ, Brass and Percussion/ E. Power Biggs/ MQ 31193

Bach for Band/ London Symphonic Band/ MQ 31126

Monster Concert/ (various)/ MQ 31726
 

ubertrout

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I recently sent an email to D~V with some classical suggestions, to which I received no response. I'm listing them below in case they may be reading this web site. All of these are "surround spectaculars" (discreet):
...

Boulez conducts Bartok Concerto for Orchestra /New York Philharmonic /MQ 32132 (be careful-Sony reissued this on MC SACD in the early 2000's, but remixed it to ambient rears. You need the original discreet surround QUAD master)
The Sony SACD release of the Bartok disc was just baffling - they re-used the cover that highlighted the purposefully discrete quad mix - the Concerto for Orchestra is a great fit for Quad engineering, offering the ability to really show the different parts of the orchestra being highlighted at different times. And then they did an ambient mix from the stereo - just why?

The disc of Holst's The Planets with Bernstein had the same problem - and omitted the organ that was supposed to be in the rear channels. I understand offering a stereo-only SACD, and Sony must have known how to port over a quad mix to 5.0 SACD. So why did they make the hash they did with these discs? I don't have the expertise to check the Bernstein Tchaikovsky 4th and Boulez Ravel discs, although those were never as discrete as I understand it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Sony did something similar.

I sent D-V my own list a while ago, also to no response, where I suggested things I'd suggested here too - The Fantastic Philadelphians Vols. 1&2, Stokowski's Mahler 2nd & Brahms 4th, and lots more of the Ormandy recordings from the 70s (of which I was pleased to see we got the Rubinstein collaborations as part of their January slate).
 

4-earredwonder

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The Sony SACD release of the Bartok disc was just baffling - they re-used the cover that highlighted the purposefully discrete quad mix - the Concerto for Orchestra is a great fit for Quad engineering, offering the ability to really show the different parts of the orchestra being highlighted at different times. And then they did an ambient mix from the stereo - just why?

The disc of Holst's The Planets with Bernstein had the same problem - and omitted the organ that was supposed to be in the rear channels. I understand offering a stereo-only SACD, and Sony must have known how to port over a quad mix to 5.0 SACD. So why did they make the hash they did with these discs? I don't have the expertise to check the Bernstein Tchaikovsky 4th and Boulez Ravel discs, although those were never as discrete as I understand it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Sony did something similar.

I sent D-V my own list a while ago, also to no response, where I suggested things I'd suggested here too - The Fantastic Philadelphians Vols. 1&2, Stokowski's Mahler 2nd & Brahms 4th, and lots more of the Ormandy recordings from the 70s (of which I was pleased to see we got the Rubinstein collaborations as part of their January slate).
MOST unfortunately, SONY was never a great custodian of their own resources. Ever wonder why SACD initially was a BUST? Even the Living Stereo reissues while 'rewarding' us with extra material have been bettered by the recent Analogue Production's Stereo/three channel SACD reissues (albeit, minus the bonus content). Even the Dylan SACD reissues were rife with problems and for years Miles Davis' Kind of Blue was plagued with off speed remasters (since corrected).

All of surroundophile's and ubertrout's Columbia/RCA QUAD recommendations are GREAT suggestions and D~V's commitment to excellence has surely manifested itself in recent QUAD SACD reissues.

I listened again to Rózsa conducts Rózsa last night and what D~V did with the original three channel RCA analogue masters by expanding it to the rear channels is nothing short of miraculous and ironically, D~V is roughly charging what SONY did for the original Living Stereo 'budget' SACD remasters....but this time around........ARE DOING IT RIGHT!
 

ubertrout

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Since D-V has already gotten out the Arthur Fiedler "Best of the 70s" disc, what about taking a crack of the recording of Dvorak's New World Symphony he made for RCA, and released on quad? It's extremely well-regarded, not currently in print (albeit available cheap secondhand), and due for a remastering in stereo as well.

41STIW6LhUL.jpg

The perfect complement would be the recording of Schedrin's arrangement of Carmen, done at the same time on quad, and also mostly out of print on CD.
 

bmoura

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There are quite a few Quad recordings from the RCA Red Seal and Columbia Masterworks catalog in the Sony Music vaults that Dutton Epoch could look into.
If the sales are there, could be an interesting arena for Dutton Epoch to be sure.
 

4-earredwonder

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Today, I received the latest batch of Dutton Epoch Quadraphonic Classical SACDs from the RCA/Columbia catalogue. Masterfully remastered for SACD by Michael Dutton, they are truly exquisite!

I am looking forward to the next offerings from the extensive RCA/Columbia QUAD catalogue and fingers crossed that Leonard Bernstein's magnificent MASS is among them....and how about the Original cast recording of HAIR! We can surely use a return to that serendipitous Age of Aquarius in these trying times!
 

ubertrout

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A WTB about the Anthony Newman Organ Orgy disc got me listening to the RBCD of his cycle of the Bach Brandenburg Concertos, which I've been greatly enjoying. It would seem an easy choice for Dutton - no longer in print, popular repertoire, etc. Not sure how discrete the quad mix is?

On CD there's a number of Vivaldi (and Ernst) concertos as fillers, but there's a disc of Bach and Haydn Concertos, also in quad, that never has had any digital release. Would seem a logical filler.

MQ-32300 (SQ)/MAQ-32300 (DQ8) J.S. BACH: Concerto No. 1 in d for
Harpsichord, S.1052. F. J. HAYDN: Concerto in D for Harpsichord,
Op. 21 (Newman Ensemble)

M2Q-31398 (SQ) [2 LP]/QMA-31398 (Q8) [2 TAPE] J. S. BACH:
Brandenburg Concertos, S.1046/51 (Newman/Ensemble)
 

ubertrout

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This thread is really a window into my soul, apparently, because all this hope for various lower-tier 70s pop artists is making me really hope that the September releases are classical, both because that's what I want and because everyone else is getting their expectations so high for more mainstream pop stuff.

Oh, and I probably should add a suggestion. The Stokowski Spectacular from Pye (https://www.discogs.com/StokowskiNational-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Stokowski-Spectacular/release/7551769) is floating around the internet in a third-party transfer, but it would be great to have it released from the original master tape by D-V
 

quicksrt

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This thread is really a window into my soul, apparently, because all this hope for various lower-tier 70s pop artists is making me really hope that the September releases are classical, both because that's what I want and because everyone else is getting their expectations so high for more mainstream pop stuff.

Oh, and I probably should add a suggestion. The Stokowski Spectacular from Pye (https://www.discogs.com/StokowskiNational-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Stokowski-Spectacular/release/7551769) is floating around the internet in a third-party transfer, but it would be great to have it released from the original master tape by D-V
You hope the next ones announced are classical because everyone is getting their hopes up high for more mainstream pop (like those evergreens I just can't get outta my head).

Well I hope you are disappointed with the next batch and the batch after that as well. And you have to wait a full year before any good classical appears in quad on DV. (Good laugh)
 
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