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Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

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Circular Vibes

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I do believe the Beeb would release more from the archives if it were up to them only and they can find a few quid in it. The classical stuff would certainly be easier as the composer gets no say anymore in most cases and the artists are likely paid a flat rate. As to newer musical creations such as pop or jazz, a new licencing agreement would have to be made most likely as the material is likely under copyright and the artists would originally only have agreed to record for broacast not for commercial release. That said, I have no doubt the Beeb still has a copy of almost everything they created for broadcast and it is being painstakingly cared for. The only heavy losses for Beeb radio material would have been in WW2 when the Beeb was bombed and a portion of the record library was damaged. As long as the material is still in the library, there is always at least a glimmer of hope. I wonder how many radio stations still have the transcriptions? I see 80s era ones on ePay sometimes and they are steeply priced and still sell. I haven't seen any quad ones though.
 

Dillydipper

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That's a fantastic dream though, about pairing-up a commercially-released title with the then-current Beeb recording - even if the Beeb appearance were to have been to promote the album itself initially, thus containing mostly the same tracks. What better "bonus disc" could you ask for, that bears relevance to the album at hand. Who knows, maybe Michael getting Auntie B and a major label shaking hands on a short series of releases, could open the door to future collaborations...?

Also, with Dutton's pricing structure being so accommodating already, I can see him finding the motivation to add a bit, if it results in a longer-lasting handshake.
 

van1

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BGO (along with the likes of Cherry Red and its sub-labels, and Ace Records) are direct competitors of D-V in the UK, so none of these companies are going to have anything to do with each other.

The nutshell version is that between themselves, Sony, Universal and Warner basically own the the rights to the very vast majority of every popular album released in the last 100 years. Major labels, like car manufacturers, don't want to sell 1,000 of something (it's pretty much literally not worth their time), they want to sell a million, or if they're lucky, multiple millions of copies, something which is probably a rarer and rarer occurrence these days.

One account from Billboard writer Bill Holland in the mid-00's suggested that UMG had something like 2.5 million various musical"assets" (a catch-all for anything that has music on it - tapes, laquers, wax cylinders, etc.) and Sony had in the region of 1.5 million. I'm not suggesting that 1 asset = 1 album, but it gives you a kind of ballpark for considering what these labels are dealing with. So what do they do with the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of albums they simply don't have the time or money to devote to reissuing? They license them out to reissue labels like D-V. Think of it as a kind of mutually beneficial type of outsourcing - because they're fronting the money for each reissue, the reissue label assumes all the risks involved, but at the same time that same label will (hopefully) also have unique knowledge about how to package/remaster the reissue in a way to maximise its appeal to their demographic, and also will also likely have a loyal customer base who will buy their products sight unseen (or unheard) based on their satisfaction with previous purchases. D-V is certainly building up that kind of reputation here, and there are plenty of fans of the stereo audiophile reissue labels like MoFi, AP, Intervention, and AF (when they were still around) both here and over on the Hoffman Forums.

I don't know the contractual nitty gritty of a licensing agreement, but it's my general understanding that the licenser (ie Sony) grants the licensee (ie BGO, or D-V) the exclusive right to sell their own unique version of an album for an agreed-upon number of years in whatever territory the licensee is located. It may vary from case to case, but generally the licensee has a certain number of discs pressed as part of the initial batch, and then they can order represses if the title sells out, if they're still within their license period. So basically, this is a long-winded way of saying that if BGO is selling stereo CDs of Andy Williams albums that also had quad versions, they're off the table for D-V until BGO's license with Sony expires. Knowing if or when that's happened is a tricky thing - some titles go out of print really quickly, while others seem to be perennially in print with the same reissue label, I'm guessing they just re-up their contracts if titles or selling, or maybe they have rolling agreements, I dunno. If you're curious if a title is possibly 'available' for D-V one way of researching it is to look up the album on a UK retailer like Amazon.co.uk (and/or HMV, or similar) and see if it's still available for sale from them, and not a 3rd party seller. If it says 'title unavailable' (as opposed to stock coming soon or something like that) then there's at least a chance that it's out of print - but again you never know because there's always stuff going on behind the scenes.

If you want more insight into what goes into a small reissue label, there's a guy on the Hoffman forums who started a label called 'Rubellan Remasters' - he made a thread over there called "New Classic Alt reissue label: Rubellan Remasters, now open for business!" where he discusses in pretty candid detail (maybe TOO candid, in my opinion) all the hurdles he's faced and his annoyances with all the various major label people he's had to work with. If anything it'll give you some extra appreciation for how D-V has managed to maintain such high quality and a high volume of releases, with a minimum of self-congratulatory back patting about their achievements...aside from posts like this where I get on my soapbox a bit. :D
And what’s been great so far with D-V is that they have repressed many of their quad titles. None of them have gone OOP yet so I hope they do have rolling contracts, otherwise we will see some major regrets from people saying ‘I can’t believe I waited 5 years to pick up 2 ... quad albums on sacd for 12 pounds and now it’s OOP’
 

fredblue

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And what’s been great so far with D-V is that they have repressed many of their quad titles. None of them have gone OOP yet so I hope they do have rolling contracts, otherwise we will see some major regrets from people saying ‘I can’t believe I waited 5 years to pick up 2 ... quad albums on sacd for 12 pounds and now it’s OOP’
the first ones i'd keep an eye on are the Billy Paul's, described as "Limited Editon"'s... time limited? limited numbers? we shall see... 👀
 

ubertrout

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And what’s been great so far with D-V is that they have repressed many of their quad titles. None of them have gone OOP yet so I hope they do have rolling contracts, otherwise we will see some major regrets from people saying ‘I can’t believe I waited 5 years to pick up 2 ... quad albums on sacd for 12 pounds and now it’s OOP’
I noticed on the thread @steelydave mentioned on SHF, the fellow behind Rubellan Remasters mentioned the terms of his license is that he can press more within 3 years. I don't expect we'll get confirmation of similar terms for DV, but I'd assume the terms are similar unless specifically set forth otherwise.
 

gvl_guy

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Sade. I'd LOVE to have some multichannel stuff of hers. Amazing voice. Awesome music. But, since none of her stuff was previously released in some multichannel form, I doubt DV would do anything with it.
 

Q-Eight

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Don't know if I thought of these before. We already got The Greatest Hits from Audio Fidelity, so let's see about getting the rest of Sly's work:

- There's a Riot Going On (check to see if the advertisements were correct. ACTUAL Columbia Records sleeves announced this title as coming soon)
- Small Talk

- High on You
- Heard Ya Missed me, Well, I'm Back! (was listen in a few tape catalogs as coming soon)
 

steelydave

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Don't know if I thought of these before. We already got The Greatest Hits from Audio Fidelity, so let's see about getting the rest of Sly's work:

- There's a Riot Going On (check to see if the advertisements were correct. ACTUAL Columbia Records sleeves announced this title as coming soon)
- Small Talk

- High on You
- Heard Ya Missed me, Well, I'm Back! (was listen in a few tape catalogs as coming soon)
I'd be curious to know if the There's a Riot Goin' On quad mix actually happened or not too - I recall hearing stories that Sly overdubbed the master tape so many times that the oxide was literally coming off, and that's part of the reason for the murky sound of the stereo mix. If that's the case, maybe the condition of the tapes precluded the planned remix...the quad version of Greatest Hits was one of the bigger early sellers in quad and Columbia released a ton of stuff that first year (1972) so you'd think they'd have released the quad mix of Riot if they had it in hand.

As for the other three (Small Talk, High on You, Heard Ya Missed Me) they were reissued on CD by BGO in the UK a year or two ago, so they're probably off the table for a little while, yet. FWIW when I spoke to Sigma Sound engineer Arthur Stoppe, I asked him about the possibility of a quad mix of Heard Ya Missed Me because the stereo mix was done there by studio owner Joe Tarsia (who did the quad mixes of Billy Paul's 360 Degreees, MFSB's Love is the Message and The O'Jays' Survival) and he said he has no recollection of the album being mixed in quad at Sigma. That's not to say it definitively didn't happen, but you'd think since they went to the trouble of having the album mixed there in stereo, and by a guy with quad experience, that they'd probably double-dip for the quad mix if they were going to do it as it would be the fastest, cheapest, best way to get it done.

I was always surprised that Fresh didn't get released in quad - the Family Stone's best 'later era' album, and it came out in 1973 at the peak of CBS's quad push. It was also recorded in at least two quad-equipped studios (Record Plant and CBS San Fran) and counts a bunch of "quad veteran" engineers amongst its credits including Roy Segal (Chase), Mike Fusaro (Blood, Sweat & Tears) and Don Puluse (Chicago, Labelle). There was also that weird incident where the first CD pressing of the album was all wrong/alternate mixes of the album, and quickly withdrawn and replaced with the correct stereo mixes - if you were a conspiracy theorist you might wonder if those were quad fold-downs or the SQ mix, if it does exist...
 

J. PUPSTER

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I'd be curious to know if the There's a Riot Goin' On quad mix actually happened or not too - I recall hearing stories that Sly overdubbed the master tape so many times that the oxide was literally coming off, and that's part of the reason for the murky sound of the stereo mix. If that's the case, maybe the condition of the tapes precluded the planned remix...the quad version of Greatest Hits was one of the bigger early sellers in quad and Columbia released a ton of stuff that first year (1972) so you'd think they'd have released the quad mix of Riot if they had it in hand.

As for the other three (Small Talk, High on You, Heard Ya Missed Me) they were reissued on CD by BGO in the UK a year or two ago, so they're probably off the table for a little while, yet. FWIW when I spoke to Sigma Sound engineer Arthur Stoppe, I asked him about the possibility of a quad mix of Heard Ya Missed Me because the stereo mix was done there by studio owner Joe Tarsia (who did the quad mixes of Billy Paul's 360 Degreees, MFSB's Love is the Message and The O'Jays' Survival) and he said he has no recollection of the album being mixed in quad at Sigma. That's not to say it definitively didn't happen, but you'd think since they went to the trouble of having the album mixed there in stereo, and by a guy with quad experience, that they'd probably double-dip for the quad mix if they were going to do it as it would be the fastest, cheapest, best way to get it done.

I was always surprised that Fresh didn't get released in quad - the Family Stone's best 'later era' album, and it came out in 1973 at the peak of CBS's quad push. It was also recorded in at least two quad-equipped studios (Record Plant and CBS San Fran) and counts a bunch of "quad veteran" engineers amongst its credits including Roy Segal (Chase), Mike Fusaro (Blood, Sweat & Tears) and Don Puluse (Chicago, Labelle). There was also that weird incident where the first CD pressing of the album was all wrong/alternate mixes of the album, and quickly withdrawn and replaced with the correct stereo mixes - if you were a conspiracy theorist you might wonder if those were quad fold-downs or the SQ mix, if it does exist...
Just got in the SACD of There's a Riot Goin' On just about a week ago, only heard the CD layer off of it so far, but yeah, definitely a murkiness goin' on with this one.
 

jaybird100

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Thanks for the tip. I just ordered 3 discs I wanted. Never heard any of their releases before but it sounds like they're top notch from what I'm reading.
They are. Their SACD's are some of the best I've heard, and the price is right. Even with the hike in postal rates in the UK, they're still a bargain.
 

J. PUPSTER

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Maybe: Tomita- Kosmos or The Bermuda-Triangle
Since they already did Firebird & Daphnis Et Chloé

 
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