Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

[Clint Eastwood]

I have always heard the argument that some artists absolutely don't want their albums released in quad. I would love to understand why. What's the big deal? Wouldn't it be in their best interests for popularity and financially to rerelease their catalogs? (Okay, I know some really don't need more money, but they're artists. Wouldn't they want to always be popular? )

I don't think you were a member on here a few years ago when we had a Paul Simon "teaser"...it was even listed on cdJapan...then it was pulled

 

[4-earredwonder]

I don't think you were a member on here a few years ago when we had a Paul Simon "teaser"...it was even listed on cdJapan...then it was pulled

Remember that fiasco well, Clinty. Ole Rhymin' Simon surely pulled the plug on that one ..... and instead Mobile Fidelity issued their $100 Deluxe Vinyl version of Bridge Over Troubled Water.........

But at least we know those QUAD masters are secure and maybe, JUST MAYBE, one day SONY Japan will pull the trigger!

 

[ar surround]

Remember that fiasco well, Clinty. Ole Rhymin' Simon surely pulled the plug on that one ..... and instead Mobile Fidelity issued their $100 Deluxe Vinyl version of Bridge Over Troubled Water.........

But at least we know those QUAD masters are secure and maybe, JUST MAYBE, one day SONY Japan will pull the trigger!

That may not happen until Paul Simon's heirs want some nice additional income from the quads. I hope we're still around when and if that happens, but I'm not in any way hoping for Simon's demise anytime soon.

 

[sjcorne]

Is there really any evidence that Simon himself single-handedly stopped the release of that disc? Yes, he controls the copyright to his recordings--and there were reports of him being dissatisfied with Frank Filipetti's unreleased 5.1 mix of Graceland--but somehow I doubt that the BOTW release could've gotten as far as the pre-order stage without him knowing about it. These claims that he's 'anti-surround' are unfounded, in my opinion at least.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Is there really any evidence that Simon himself single-handedly stopped the release of that disc? Yes, he controls the copyright to his recordings--and there were reports of him being dissatisfied with Frank Filipetti's unreleased 5.1 mix of Graceland--but somehow I doubt that the BOTW release could've gotten as far as the pre-order stage without him knowing about it. These claims that he's 'anti-surround' are unfounded, in my opinion at least.

You may be right about him not being anti-surround...IIRC he stated that he didn't like the "liberties" taken with his music...which could mean anything...but it is hard to believe that he wasn't instrumental in stopped the quad release...who else would intervene?

 

[4-earredwonder]

You may be right about him not being anti-surround...IIRC he stated that he didn't like the "liberties" taken with his music...which could mean anything...but it is hard to believe that he wasn't instrumental in stopped the quad release...who else would intervene?

Maybe his buddy, Van the Man Morrison, Clinty! Do you recall that fiasco when Warners released Elliot Scheiner's re~mix of Moondance? Van went BALLISTIC!

 

[ar surround]

Is there really any evidence that Simon himself single-handedly stopped the release of that disc? Yes, he controls the copyright to his recordings--and there were reports of him being dissatisfied with Frank Filipetti's unreleased 5.1 mix of Graceland--but somehow I doubt that the BOTW release could've gotten as far as the pre-order stage without him knowing about it. These claims that he's 'anti-surround' are unfounded, in my opinion at least.

Of course. A lot of half-truths have been spread around since humans first learned how to communicate. Mark Twain never actually said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." But that quip makes a fantastic urban myth, especially for the tourist who ends up on the SF waterfront on a July evening without a suitable jacket. So perhaps Paul Simon didn't care for those particular mixes of the quads and the 5.1 of Graceland, but he may have felt differently had he mixed them himself to his liking?

 

[MrSmithers]

Yeah I'm not sure what happened to that preorder for Bridge Over Troubled Water either, but it was certainly a bit of a let down... I think the copyright is different to the recorded rights though? In that whoever has the rights to the recorded music can sell it as they see fit, up to 50 years after release. In the UK they have to pay the copyright holder 7p for every sale? The copyright holder is free to arrange deals for publishing deals of their own accord... (Adverts, movies etc)

I've seen that BOTW, There Goes Rhymin' Simon, and Paul Simon are "available" in surround on Tidal as 360 RA to stream. As well as a heap of legacy Columbia quads! Quite a few D-V releases on there too... Although it's a bit of a moot point as currently there's no way to stream them as they are encoded in MPEG-H, and I don't think there's much equipped to play that new format at the mo?

Sony 360 Reality Audio Albums on Tidal

 

[MrSmithers]

My suggestion to D-V would be try releasing just a single layer MCH SACD (old school!). Sod the Stereo CD/SACD layer! This could circumnavigate titles where there's an exiting stereo release already out - like MFSB for example. Worth a shot?!

 

[DuncanS]

Yeah I'm not sure what happened to that preorder for Bridge Over Troubled Water either, but it was certainly a bit of a let down... I think the copyright is different to the recorded rights though? In that whoever has the rights to the recorded music can sell it as they see fit, up to 50 years after release. In the UK they have to pay the copyright holder 7p for every sale? The copyright holder is free to arrange deals for publishing deals of their own accord... (Adverts, movies etc)

I've seen that BOTW, There Goes Rhymin' Simon, and Paul Simon are "available" in surround on Tidal as 360 RA to stream. As well as a heap of legacy Columbia quads! Quite a few D-V releases on there too... Although it's a bit of a moot point as currently there's no way to stream them as they are encoded in MPEG-H, and I don't think there's much equipped to play that new format at the mo?

Sony 360 Reality Audio Albums on Tidal

Maybe that is why the Japanese SACD was pulled, so they could push Sony 360 (Sony own Columbia I think)

 

[MrSmithers]

Maybe that is why the Japanese SACD was pulled, so they could push Sony 360 (Sony own Columbia I think)

Yeah could be... But they've had a couple of things (Santana) come out in the meantime? It certainly has a whiff of confusion...

Who knows, maybe this little cat burglar sneaked into the CDJapan offices late at night and disposed of them before they could get out?! Got to keep the customer (un)satisfied!

 

[Q-Eight]

I wouldn't count on any of Paul Simon's albums being released in surround. One of the major reasons why he pulled his catalog from Columbia to Warner Brothers is because Columbia took "liberties" with his albums. He was against Columbia releasing his albums in quad, including BOTW, and Warner Brothers assured him he'd have complete control of his catalog.

Paul Simon won't live forever. What's worse, he's "controlled" his catalog to the point of almost becoming a non-entity. Ask your nearest under 40-year-old if they know who Paul Simon is. Chances are, they won't. And, his heirs will hopefully loosen control because if you don't, the catalog no longer makes money.

It used to be a well-known fact that Mark Lindsay was furious over the Quad Indian Reservation. I had a Facebook chat with him not long ago and I breached the subject with him in regards to the (then) recent D-V release. He explained that his furor over the Quad was not that it was released in Quad, but the fact that he was not contacted about it, nor had ANY input. He'd have been fine with the release of it, had they (Columbia Records) consulted him and mixed it his way. He was the Producer on that particular album! But at the time, he was so upset that he used his clout to put the kibosh to any further Raiders or Mark Lindsay solo records being released in Quad. He hasn't heard it since the 70's, but he recalls that there were so many mixing choices that were plain old wrong or ruined the vibe he was going for, to the point he's never heard it from start to finish.

Though, he did admit, that he's glad it at least exists today. "[My] outlook on the situation has softened with time." (quote)

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yeah could be... But they've had a couple of things (Santana) come out in the meantime? It certainly has a whiff of confusion...

Who knows, maybe this little cat burglar sneaked into the CDJapan offices late at night and disposed of them before they could get out?! Got to keep the customer (un)satisfied!

View attachment 64706

Oh, MY! So that's where little Paulie keeps his "QUAD" stache STASH!

 

[esimms86]

Maybe that is why the Japanese SACD was pulled, so they could push Sony 360 (Sony own Columbia I think)

I wonder (1)if a Roy Halee/Paul Simon collaboratively mixed quad would sit well with Mr. Simon, (2)if they could get all of the original tapes digitized pre-bounce and they reconstruct BOTW in similar fashion to how the Beatles 5.1, etc. mixes were so pristinely done, and (3)does Mr. Garfunkel have any thoughts/input( and ownership/say) re: releasing BOTW in surround.

 

[sjcorne]

He explained that his furor over the Quad was not that it was released in Quad, but the fact that he was not contacted about it, nor had ANY input. He'd have been fine with the release of it, had the consulted him and mixed it his way. But at the time, he was so upset that he used his clout to put the kibosh to any further Raiders or Mark Lindsay solo records.

Steven Wilson gave a quote in an interview not long ago expressing a similar sentiment:

A lot of times, it’s the artists. They find out the label has commissioned a 5.1 mix, and because it’s been done without their approval, they take a stand on principle, without actually having heard it. I know that’s the case with some other mixes I’ve done that we won’t name. For one of them, a certain artist found out it had been done and he hadn’t been asked about it, and he basically said, “I’m not allowing that out.” He didn’t hear it, but I would be the same — if I found out someone I’d never heard of had done a surround mix of one of my albums, I’d say, “No, I’m not allowing that out.” So, I totally understand it. There are a lot of politics going on.

That being said, It’s not like the S&G quads were done by random people who had no involvement in the original productions--Roy Halee himself did Bridge and each of their first solo LP’s. Who would know that material better?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Steven Wilson gave a quote in an interview not long ago expressing a similar sentiment:


That being said, It’s not like the S&G quads were done by random people who had no involvement in the original productions--Roy Halee himself did Bridge and each of their first solo LP’s. Who would know that material better?

I do have a feeling that when MoFi's $100 deluxe vinyl edition licensing of BOTW expires, we WILL see that SONY Japan BOTW QUAD release in special 7" packaging.

BTW, Jonathan, did Roy Halee also do the QUAD mix for Bookends which many claim does exist?

 

[quicksrt]

I do have a feeling that when MoFi's $100 deluxe vinyl edition licensing of BOTW expires, we WILL see that SONY Japan BOTW QUAD release in special 7" packaging.

BTW, Jonathan, did Roy Halee also do the QUAD mix for Bookends which many claim does exist?

Sony Japan seems to not give a toss on what MFSL or AF has licensed. The Santana SACD with quad has come out (from Sony) while MFSL is still marketing their same Santana tiles. I think that their approach is to say we are marketing this in Japan, not the USA. So MFSL has nothing to complain about (other than massive imports the US has access to from Japan).

 

[esimms86]

I do have a feeling that when MoFi's $100 deluxe vinyl edition licensing of BOTW expires, we WILL see that SONY Japan BOTW QUAD release in special 7" packaging.

BTW, Jonathan, did Roy Halee also do the QUAD mix for Bookends which many claim does exist?

I’ve been Roy Haleed and Art Garfunkeled.

 

[sjcorne]

did Roy Halee also do the QUAD mix for Bookends which many claim does exist?

Nope, that would be CBS staff engineer Jim Reeves. He did the quad mixes of BS&T's self-titled second album, The Jeff Beck Group's Rough and Ready, and Bloomfield, Kooper & Stills' Super Session. On his website, he claims credit for several other CBS quad titles that were either unreleased or credited to someone else (Larry Keyes, Don Young, etc) on the LP sleeve.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Nope, that would be CBS staff engineer Jim Reeves. He did the quad mixes of BS&T's self-titled second album, The Jeff Beck Group's Rough and Ready, and Bloomfield, Kooper & Stills' Super Session. On his website, he claims credit for several other CBS quad titles that were either unreleased or credited to someone else (Larry Keyes, Don Young, etc) on the LP sleeve.

I wonder if Michael Dutton would ever be privy to all those UNRELEASED QUAD titles in the Columbia and quite possibly RCA vaults for future QUAD SACD releases?

Thanks for sharing.