SUN RA -Magic City. Impulse AS-9243 (QS) Is it really QUAD?

[rustyandi]

I got the link from some post here but do not remember where. I have it saved for future updates to the discography

I pulled out my copy Stereo AS9243
Cleaned it Put it in the laser player then into the QSD1
The music? is not to my taste but I sat there and played it thru
I have 4 display units and the Scope plus my ears
I am 99pc sure that it is QS Quad
There are many solo rear channel effects that could only come from Quad
Ron

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I got the link from some post here but do not remember where. I have it saved for future updates to the discography

I remember Ed Michel had a link on here approximately 2-3 years back , then it disappeared .
But....perhaps it was to update his listings , which is a good thing for collectors , as it now indicates what is presently available , plus includes QS encoded cd's .
A very good listing I think.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I pulled out my copy Stereo AS9243
Cleaned it Put it in the laser player then into the QSD1
The music? is not to my taste but I sat there and played it thru
I have 4 display units and the Scope plus my ears
I am 99pc sure that it is QS Quad
There are many solo rear channel effects that could only come from Quad
Ron

That album # is right in the thick of the QS encodes on Impulse , so it's quite possible .

 

[willothewisp]

the first side of the album is mono so i cant see how people are hearing instruments from the rear channels

is it not time a proper investigation is done instead of just what people think

 

[rustyandi]

I played side 1
And there was a X display on the scope
If it was mono the scope shows a strait line in the middle
plus I could hear left and right channels and show rear solo,s

 

[Mark Anderson]

I played side 1
And there was a X display on the scope
If it was mono the scope shows a strait line in the middle
plus I could hear left and right channels and show rear solo,s

Ron, do you think that this release simulated stereo on the mono side of the previous version? I trust your ears but you know someone who does not have the recording would ask eventually

 

[rustyandi]

Ron, do you think that this release simulated stereo on the mono side of the previous version? I trust your ears but you know someone who does not have the recording would ask eventually

I will play it again in the next day or two but I don,t think that I am wrong

\

 

[halbroome]

Sun Ra's ASTRO BLACK quad is going for a decent (for vinyl) price (39 bucks, or bid cheaper) on fleaBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ra-Ast...832458&hash=item33f58be3f5:g:qU0AAOSwFvBbqvfa

Edit: this book was mentioned by Jefe earlier in the thread, but here's a koo anecdote:

"There's a short chronicle of Ra's Impulse adventures in "The House That Trane Built: The Story of Impulse! Records," by Ashley Kahn. The book includes the following amusing anecdote by Ed Michel, in which he recalls his first Sun Ra mixing session in 1972: 'I liked to mix at the pain threshold. It was really loud. We were mixing it quadraphonically in a relatively small room. Sun Ra was sleeping deep and snoring loud. For some reason, I stopped the tape in the middle of the tune. He came awake, wheeled his head like an owl does—all around the room, checking everything out. He said, 'You Earth people sleep too much.' He put his head down and started to snore again.'"

 

[jefe1]

I guess ultimately the question is does it sound good to you? if its simulated or real quad if I like it I like it...

Maybe someone else not Ed Michel mixed it in quad. Maybe there were stereo tapes delivered to Impulse who knows.

I will have to dig my copy out prepare myself for the onslaught of sound and listen through the surround master.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I guess ultimately the question is does it sound good to you? if its simulated or real quad if I like it I like it...

Maybe someone else not Ed Michel mixed it in quad. Maybe there were stereo tapes delivered to Impulse who knows.

I will have to dig my copy out prepare myself for the onslaught of sound and listen through the surround master.

Well yes that's the thing about ABC , Impulse quad discs .
Ed Michel mixed and encoded the "lion's share " of QS albums , but not all of 'em.

 

[jefe1]

Ok....I pulled out my Impulse copy of Magic City and listened to It both sides thru the sound master then thru the Marantz built in varimatrix. So it sounds like it's mixed in full surround to me with full intensity coming out of the rears not an exact duplicate of the fronts. But it could synthesize well. The record is definitely stereo. So I think someone at Impulse remixed the tapes they got from Saturn records.

 

[rustyandi]

I will play it again in the next day or two but I don,t think that I am wrong

\

I have another play
I noticed that it was recorded in 1960
I played it stereo and on the scope it looks a wide left and right spread
That maybe and early way of mixing or simulated stereo
I do not have a lot to do with simulated stereo but as I played it more
it may be simulated stereo
Although the side 1 decodes like a QS LP that maybe because of the wide spread
Side 2 is not as good
I did say 99 pc sure so that gives me a way out

(I think it is simulated stereo )

sorry

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Although recorded (originally ) in 1960 , Ed Michel got to muck about with this and that would include the tapes , in 1973 .

So that's something to keep in mind for ALL those Impulse albums originally recorded in the 60's , that got re-issued .

 

[Paul Pettegrove]

There were, in fact, 5 Sun Ra QS Quadraphonic releases:*

SUN RA -
Astro Black. Impulse AS-9255 (QS)
Discipline 27-II. El Saturn Records SR-538 (QS)
Magic City. Impulse AS-9243 (QS)
Pathways to Unknown Worlds. Impulse ASD-9298 (QS)
* Space is the Place. Blue Thumb BTS-41 (QS), BTE-M-841 (QS8),
BT.10021 (QS) [France]
{The titles above were released only in quad, no stereo version known}

*Er, perhaps 4, NOT counting the 'questionable' Magic City QS pressing.

Re-issue with the Quad masters... not at all clear whether they bothered to Encode... label copywriter clearly thinks Quad a waste of time, didn’t bother to study up on the difference between standards, confused CD-4 with ABC Impulse QS... but it is reissued vinyl...

http://www.modernharmonic.com/sun-ra-pathways-to-unknown-worlds-lp.aspx

• STUNNING RECREATION OF THE ORIGINAL GATEFOLD JACKET!
• LP INCLUDES ARCHIVAL DOCUMENT REPLICA OF HOW RA WANTED TO SPEND HIS MAJOR LABEL ADVANCE!
• CUT BY KEVIN GRAY, AND PRESSED ON GOLD VINYL AT THIRD MAN FOR OUT OF THIS WORLD SOUND QUALITY!

Intrinsic energies of mythic worlds!
Pathways was originally issued on LP in 1975 as part of Ra’s ill-fated and short-lived ABC/Impulse! partnership. This Modern Harmonic edition has been exquisitely mastered from the four-track session reel. The Impulse! LP was formatted as “Quad Compatible”—short for “quadraphonic”—which you could enjoy if you had four speakers, a custom quad cartridge/stylus, and a quad decoder integrated into your ’70s hi-fi. (None of this technology ever achieved wide consumer acceptance. “Back to Stereo,” if you call that progress.)

Ra’s original LP liner notes expressed his disdain for the past and his vision towards the future. But the future here rendered by Ra seems more dystopian than utopian. Imagine this album as an aural Science Fiction novel, analogous to the contemporaneous writings of Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, Samuel R. Delany, and others who dwelled in unknown worlds where confusion and chaos often reign. A cybernetical soundscape for time travel through an inscrutable cosmos.

These 1975 guided improvisations are imbued with an underlying violence, alternate twists, bank turns, headchoppers, loops, rolls, sidewinders and drops. It’s a dark & glorious journey, and features the debut of the complete version of “Extension Out”!
Also available on CD!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

That Ed Michel link supplied by Mark has a crapload of Sun Ra quad encodes .....more so than what is listed in the quad discographies.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030207172453/http://www.edmicheljazzproducer.com:80/RECORDINGS.htm

 

[Paul Pettegrove]

I appreciate the link... cataloging is priceless...

I’m looking for more general information on this specific label that is pressing this new vinyl. This Sun Ra album was released in QS... the copywriter drifts over their own confused description on Quad, clearly not a fan...

But his remarks that the surviving tape masters used for the pressing was the 4 channel master tapes... the 2 channel masters were destroyed?

Therefore, the natural question is on this specific Modern Harmonic pressing? Was its master tape encoded once again in QS ? If so was a Sansui QSE-1 used? Or... as I suspect, down-mixed to 2 channel for the pressing?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

• STUNNING RECREATION OF THE ORIGINAL GATEFOLD JACKET!
• LP INCLUDES ARCHIVAL DOCUMENT REPLICA OF HOW RA WANTED TO SPEND HIS MAJOR LABEL ADVANCE!
• CUT BY KEVIN GRAY, AND PRESSED ON GOLD VINYL AT THIRD MAN FOR OUT OF THIS WORLD SOUND QUALITY!

Intrinsic energies of mythic worlds!
Pathways was originally issued on LP in 1975 as part of Ra’s ill-fated and short-lived ABC/Impulse! partnership. This Modern Harmonic edition has been exquisitely mastered from the four-track session reel. The Impulse! LP was formatted as “Quad Compatible”—short for “quadraphonic”—which you could enjoy if you had four speakers, a custom quad cartridge/stylus, and a quad decoder integrated into your ’70s hi-fi. (None of this technology ever achieved wide consumer acceptance. “Back to Stereo,” if you call that
Also available on CD!

A couple of points I must share...........a QS matrix record , or any matrix record for that matter , does not require a custom quad stylus such as those of a discrete CD-4.
A regular stylus works just fine.

Also that reference to a four track reel may be the 2ch master (encoded). Four track can mean 2 tracks one direction and 2 the other.
I've often seen reference to such on reel , confusing but neverless actually 2ch.

 

[elansound]

MAGIC CITY, to my ears, side one without doubt not quadraphonic. b side, sound great but doubt if it is

 

[guybrown]

I think I’d die and go to heaven if some one released the quad mixes of the Sun Ra albums of SACD. One can but dream...

 

[Circular Vibes]

I think I’d die and go to heaven if some one released the quad mixes of the Sun Ra albums of SACD. One can but dream...

I suspect that the discrete masters are long gone and a decoded QS version would be all that is available. A couple of the Modern Harmonic/Sundazed reissues claim to be mixed down to stereo but I am wondering how they took out the QS information. I assume they used the LP master tapes which would most likely be QS encoded two track masters. I like the quality of other Sundazed titles in my collection so maybe the MH reissues are the way to go for Sun Ra fans.