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Synthesized Coltrane Quad

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EMB

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I've had Coltrane's CONCERT IN JAPAN on Impulse for many years, but have yet to hear it in its Quad form. Taken from a mono source, I'm curious if any of you fine folk have heard it and can comment on what kind of soundfield you get. The label lists the album as "Synthesized Quad" and the notes explain(sort of)what was done, but can't say I understand it...or why it was issued in Quad at all....


Chock this up to one of my infrequent but memorable 'Dumb Quad Questions"......:eek::rolleyes:


ED:D
 
F

fdrennen

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Ed Bishop said:
I've had Coltrane's CONCERT IN JAPAN on Impulse for many years, but have yet to hear it in its Quad form. Taken from a mono source, I'm curious if any of you fine folk have heard it and can comment on what kind of soundfield you get. The label lists the album as "Synthesized Quad" and the notes explain(sort of)what was done, but can't say I understand it...or why it was issued in Quad at all....


Chock this up to one of my infrequent but memorable 'Dumb Quad Questions"......:eek::rolleyes:


ED:D
It's not a dumb question I love the recordings of John Coltrane especially on Impulse I do not own "Live in Japan", but I do own "Interstellar Space" (QS from stereo). I find this mix unimpressive but it does add a little space. My other impulse synthisized qs mix is Ahmed Jamal's Tranquility I listen to it often for the music's sake it reminds me much of those "re-channeled for stereo" mixes form the sixties. I find many of the impulse recordings benefit from using dsp modes in dpl adding a little more roundness to the sound. though. I'm not surprised that you have not received any replies because this music is not the most popular listening these days. Although i Can't imagine a day without my coltrane spiritual fix.
 

A/V SQuad

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I also have Interstellar Space, and it's about as good as synthesized stereo ever was. That is, it may add a little openness to the sound, but at the cost of loss of definition. Basically, it sounds soupy to me.

Even more amusing to me are the rechanneled quad records that are on the Everest label. Some of their 60's classical recordings on 35mm film stock are quite excellent, but their rechanelled quad is laughable. Especially when the program material predates quad by so may years, for example, I have their quad Jimmie Lunceford which originally recorded in the 30's!

And the sound is as if the mics were located under a pillow. Which is too bad, because people mistakenly assume that old recordings lack fidelity. Some do, but many sound as good as you would assume that recordings made with ribbon mics recording direct to disc are.
 

EMB

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Thanx for the replies, guys!


Think I've a fair idea of what I would hear....I can probably fiddle a bit with some settings and come up with an approximation myself, though the why of doing these eludes me. But Quad, like stereo, wasn't always real, for reasons left unexplained. Logically, one would have expected Quad to have been issued only for material that had multitrack sources to work with, but of course this didn't always happen.

Although I don't need a daily 'Trane Fix' yet--give me time :D -I will say that, upon first snowfall, I have an annual tradition....the first CD I play, upon first snow, is MY FAVORITE THINGS. Atlantic stereo Lp if I'm in the mood, but the original(not reissue w/bonus tracks)stereo CD is fine, too, and why that has to be an 'event,' I don't know, but it has been, started, IIRC, a few years after my father died back in '90. I love the album--hell, I love a lot of Trane--but that one works for me in that context...and as the leaves fall, too. A LOVE SUPREME is supreme indeed, never get tired of that one....


ED :)
 
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fdrennen

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Ed Bishop said:
Thanx for the replies, guys!


A LOVE SUPREME is supreme indeed, never get tired of that one....-


ED :)
Try CRESCENT it was made in the same year as A LOVE SUPREME and has some Beautiful moments especially LONIES LAMENT. :smokin
 

Q8

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Try CRESCENT it was made in the same year as A LOVE SUPREME and has some Beautiful moments especially LONIES LAMENT. :smokin
A Chalupa Supreme, A Chalupa Supreme, with sour cream.
 

4-earredwonder

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Thanx for the replies, guys!


Think I've a fair idea of what I would hear....I can probably fiddle a bit with some settings and come up with an approximation myself, though the why of doing these eludes me. But Quad, like stereo, wasn't always real, for reasons left unexplained. Logically, one would have expected Quad to have been issued only for material that had multitrack sources to work with, but of course this didn't always happen.

Although I don't need a daily 'Trane Fix' yet--give me time :D -I will say that, upon first snowfall, I have an annual tradition....the first CD I play, upon first snow, is MY FAVORITE THINGS. Atlantic stereo Lp if I'm in the mood, but the original(not reissue w/bonus tracks)stereo CD is fine, too, and why that has to be an 'event,' I don't know, but it has been, started, IIRC, a few years after my father died back in '90. I love the album--hell, I love a lot of Trane--but that one works for me in that context...and as the leaves fall, too. A LOVE SUPREME is supreme indeed, never get tired of that one....


ED :)
Coltrane's My Favorite Things has also been reissued as a Stereo SACD from ORG Music.* Well worth seeking out: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=8849

Decent price from MusicDirect: https://www.musicdirect.com/optical-disc/john-coltrane-my-favorite-things-hybrid-sacd

*mastered from the original analogue master tapes by Bernie Grundman.
 

Lute

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Coltrane's My Favorite Things has also been reissued as a Stereo SACD from ORG Music.* Well worth seeking out: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=8849

Decent price from MusicDirect: https://www.musicdirect.com/optical-disc/john-coltrane-my-favorite-things-hybrid-sacd

*mastered from the original analogue master tapes by Bernie Grundman.
Funny you mention My Favorite Things, I was just listening to that SACD last night along with Monk's Dream and Sonny Rollins - The Bridge. Of course 2-channel sounds good, but I couldn't resist flipping the DPL switch. To my surprise, they panned out pretty well. ;)
 

4-earredwonder

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Funny you mention My Favorite Things, I was just listening to that SACD last night along with Monk's Dream and Sonny Rollins - The Bridge. Of course 2-channel sounds good, but I couldn't resist flipping the DPL switch. To my surprise, they panned out pretty well. ;)
All that 'out of phase' info shifted to the rears. I really wish ORG had continued their SACD reissues, The 7 I do have are absolute treasures including Jeff Buckley's magnificent 'Grace.'
 

fizzywiggs41

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Wow such an ancient thread on Coltrane . Better late than never to respond though.

FWIW : Coltrane-Live In Seattle Vol 2 is a QS encode . Both Alice and Ed Michel remastered this 66 recording utilzing Sansui's Encoder of course .
Check out the Matrix cd section for the pic down amongst the Quad Legacy section.

and yes I do have the 90's GRP/IMPULSE cd , and it sounds quite good. :smokin
 

4-earredwonder

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Only two of John Coltrane's recordings were released in QUAD: Infinity [Impulse] and if you can call it that a Japanese only 2 LP (QS encode] LIVE concert which [according to the surround discography] was synthesized from a mono radio broadcast and when played back with the proper equipment is indeed MONO.
 

Q8

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Only two of John Coltrane's recordings were released in QUAD: Infinity [Impulse] and if you can call it that a Japanese only 2 LP (QS encode] LIVE concert which [according to the surround discography] was synthesized from a mono radio broadcast and when played back with the proper equipment is indeed MONO.
I don't own one but Interstellar Space also has Quadraphonic on the label. Has this one been disproven or is the Mark Anderson Discography just missing it?
 

4-earredwonder

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I don't own one but Interstellar Space also has Quadraphonic on the label. Has this one been disproven or is the Mark Anderson Discography just missing it?
Interesting question. I do recall Interstellar Space was indeed released as an QS encoded LP and perhaps its omission was an oversight in Anderson's Quadraphonic discography.


ADDENDA: Aha, the mystery is solved. Anderson states that this was released as a QS encoded LP but was synthesized [enhanced] from the stereo masters: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/notquad.htm
 

fizzywiggs41

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Only two of John Coltrane's recordings were released in QUAD: Infinity [Impulse] and if you can call it that a Japanese only 2 LP (QS encode] LIVE concert which [according to the surround discography] was synthesized from a mono radio broadcast and when played back with the proper equipment is indeed MONO.
There are four releases in Quad for Coltrane on Impulse .

As reported by Larry Clifton from info on his quad mixes , Ed Michel the Impulse Records QS encoding maestro-- reported to Larry , additional QS encodes a few years late from Larry's Quad Incorporated Catalogue and Supplements .
Additionally he gave a list of missed discs such as one he did with Alice Coltrane on Warner Bros (he did two, but only one he stated was quad QS encoded.
There is also one or two Impulse quads he stated were not quad even though the jackets had indicated so.

I have all the faith in the world with Larry's scrutinized research. :upthumb

Unlike Mark Anderson's listings , which are indeed excellent mostly for the quad listings, etc.of titles outside of the U.S.A.,
Larry's listings are from the 70's/80's quad era he collected and lived through.
Mark is a "Johnny Come Lately" as he told me when he started his quad info gathering back in the late 90's. But Mark's

listings are from Larry's initially , and include excellent reporting on World Wide quad releases .




And I can't emphasize enough how great his listings are. Superb really, and almost complete ! A very difficult task btw



FWIW Larry reported to QQ his Ed Michel additions, back in 2003. His post is there if you search , as I came across it some

years back . His Reliability is unquestioned in my uppermost humbling opinion .










A little amendment on my post reporting Coltrane Live in Seattle Vol 2 , my apologies It s/b "John Coltrane-Live In Seattle".
I had vol 2 mixed up with the other reported quad live disc.....which is." John Coltrane-Africa Brass Sessions Vol 2"
This is what happens when u post without your collection (at home) readily at hand.





Pics

20170325_101015.jpg20170325_101011.jpg20170325_100949.jpg




-thanyou for your response,
fizzywiggs :D
 

4-earredwonder

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There are four releases in Quad for Coltrane on Impulse .

As reported by Larry Clifton from info on his quad mixes , Ed Michel the Impulse Records QS encoding maestro-- reported to Larry , additional QS encodes a few years late from Larry's Quad Incorporated Catalogue and Supplements .
Additionally he gave a list of missed discs such as one he did with Alice Coltrane on Warner Bros (he did two, but only one he stated was quad QS encoded.
There is also one or two Impulse quads he stated were not quad even though the jackets had indicated so.

I have all the faith in the world with Larry's scrutinized research. :upthumb

Unlike Mark Anderson's listings , which are indeed excellent mostly for the quad listings, etc.of titles outside of the U.S.A.,
Larry's listings are from the 70's/80's quad era he collected and lived through.
Mark is a "Johnny Come Lately" as he told me when he started his quad info gathering back in the late 90's. But Mark's

listings are from Larry's initially , and include excellent reporting on World Wide quad releases .




And I can't emphasize enough how great his listings are. Superb really, and almost complete ! A very difficult task btw



FWIW Larry reported to QQ his Ed Michel additions, back in 2003. His post is there if you search , as I came across it some

years back . His Reliability is unquestioned in my uppermost humbling opinion .










A little amendment on my post reporting Coltrane Live in Seattle Vol 2 , my apologies It s/b "John Coltrane-Live In Seattle".
I had vol 2 mixed up with the other reported quad live disc.....which is." John Coltrane-Africa Brass Sessions Vol 2"
This is what happens when u post without your collection (at home) readily at hand.





Pics

View attachment 28959View attachment 28960View attachment 28961




-thanyou for your response,
fizzywiggs :D
Thanks for your invaluable and concise update. I managed to find a 1 RBCD disc of Coltrane's Live in Seattle on Amazon [remastered on a single CD in 2012] and should be receiving it soon. It was originally recorded in 1965 so I imagine the QS encode was probably likewise synthesized from two channel stereo. I believe this was also the first time that saxophonist Pharaoh Sanders joined Coltrane's group for this live outing and have always been a fan of Sander's music, as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VR95QW/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
 

fizzywiggs41

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Thanks for your invaluable and concise update. I managed to find a 1 RBCD disc of Coltrane's Live in Seattle on Amazon [remastered on a single CD in 2012] and should be receiving it soon. It was originally recorded in 1965 so I imagine the QS encode was probably likewise synthesized from two channel stereo. I believe this was also the first time that saxophonist Pharaoh Sanders joined Coltrane's group for this live outing and have always been a fan of Sander's music, as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VR95QW/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
Your very welcome of course, 4 ear


I'm still on the hunt for the Africa Brass live vol 2. (Note : vol one is not encoded)

I also forgot to mention , but it's in the liner notes, Pharaoh Sanders was also involved with the Live Seattle QS disc .
a little blurry but his name is on the disc with Ed and Alice .


FWIW the Seattle disc sounds pretty good in either QS or dolby pro., and I was never a big fan of most of the Impulse quads
s in my younger years-----70's , I am slowly re-visiting them ...and like what I hear though. This performance by Coltrane is way too good to overlook, btw .:D
 

EMB

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Interesting question. I do recall Interstellar Space was indeed released as an QS encoded LP and perhaps its omission was an oversight in Anderson's Quadraphonic discography.


ADDENDA: Aha, the mystery is solved. Anderson states that this was released as a QS encoded LP but was synthesized [enhanced] from the stereo masters: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/notquad.htm

That's what I thought happened to the Jim Croce quad's too, that they'd been enhancements of the original stereo. IMO, a fairly pointless thing to do regardless of session tape availability or vintage. But then, to make an extra back in the day, RCA, Capitol and others released fake stereo editions of recordings issued in mono only and tried to sell the sound as an actual IMPROVEMENT or enhancement of sound quality rather than the flaming bastardization of the sonics it really was. And although the few at the labels would have admitted as much, it was truly economically driven. Even more depressing: some of those fake stereo Lp's could have been at least part stereo, and some in full stereo, since session tapes or stereo mixes existed. There are too many examples to mention, but certainly 'stereo' editions of Johnny Mathis' JOHNNY'S GREATEST HITS and the Platters' ENCORE OF GOLDEN HITS would have been better for having what stereo there was located and used in the first place.

Thankfully, there are only a handful of quad releases that were 'faux quad,' and a few comps--like the Tommy James and Creedence titles--at least had some true quad tracks amidst the fake ones.

ED :)
 

fizzywiggs41

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@Ed Bishop


Strange that you mentioned those Jim Croce discs as likely stereo QS enhanced .

I thought the VERY same thing upon listening to my quad lps by Croce .

The Greatest Hits disc I never had so I always wondered about that Croce disc , but not for lack of trying-I did ask someone but received no response. Oh well.
 

EMB

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I don't remember PHOTOGRAPHS being any different in mix from the other Croce albums. Makes sense, since what they had to work with was his three ABC albums, all of which they turned into quad vinyl and tape. If any alternate mixes are on the comp, can't say they stood out.

The use of faux quad of any kind by Impulse remains baffling to me, because back in the '60s it was considered almost as an audiophile version of a jazz label, and not only was it eclectic (though any small label with a guy like Trane around would have been considered fairly avant-garde anyway) but over the years I've found (with rare exceptions) that being out of the usual jazz mainstream was the point; it was a talent oriented label, didn't just record anything for the hell of it (thanks, Bob Thiele). And factoring in the change of leadership around 1968/69, even so taking mono and trying to make it quad might have been because, at the time, the focus was on QS for most of Impulse/ABC's titles.

ED :)
 

rustyandi

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@Ed Bishop


Strange that you mentioned those Jim Croce discs as likely stereo QS enhanced .

I thought the VERY same thing upon listening to my quad lps by Croce .

The Greatest Hits disc I never had so I always wondered about that Croce disc , but not for lack of trying-I did ask someone but received no response. Oh well.
I don,t know with what Decoder you were using
But I have played them with QDS1 and Surround Master
Plus the same speakers front and back
And found them full surround but a soft surround
Not to many solo,s in the rear
If you played them in a basic QS decoder the surround may be less.
 
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