The Beach Boys 'Love You' (1977) Quad Test Pressing?

[fizzywiggs41]

I believe Bert White had a copy of that single sided "Pepper " album.

Lucky bugger.....he also had copies of Carlos' s CD-4 Clockwork Orange and Carlos hit album also in CD-4 among many other rare Quad albums.

Bert White was an early quadrophile working for Audio Magazine in the U.S. and actively promoted quad through his many editorials.



Now as to the Love You disc , I know of 2 tracks that were from the Surfs Up time period (71). The album states so, but I do not have a copy. And never checked out their DY or Virtual Surround capabilities.
Perhaps QS would be a good choice to hear them.

And yes,,,, Brian Wilson might be the best contact provided he worked on that release.


I wonder if the virtual suround is a "warble " effect acheived from the cutting lathe ? (Could indeed provide strange out of phase properties if so )

 

[timbre4]

Audio Magazine - that would be the late Bert Whyte.

 

[fredblue]

Pretty much. I haven't heard a so-called virtual surround format that could render any kind of effect over a wider area like a real surround format can.

I get the impression several of those record companies that chose SQ, chose it because they were awed by CBS's big name and aggressive release schedule, fully knowing they were going with an inferior system. EMI might be included in that group. SQ pretty much required mixing specifically for it, to try to downplay its idiosyncrasies. On the other hand, EMI's Japanese arm, Toshiba Records, released most of their pop material in QS. There were a few in CD-4, but it seems that only the classical recordings were in SQ.

As for that "hidden" SQ master of "Sgt. Pepper", there's no need for it anymore. The BD-A surround version, released in the box set, far and away exceeds anything that SQ version could have done.

has it been definitively proven those Japanese Toshiba Quads of Atom Heart Mother, Dark Side Of The Moon, Imagine, etc are RM-encoded and not just the SQ mislabelled?

 

[fredblue]

I heard from Richard (OD) about the Sgt Pepper quad.

Here's what he wanted me to post:

Here are some facts about the existence of a Quad mix of St Pepper, as told to me by my ex-pen pal 'Ben Bauer':

Whilst at EMI (I seemed to remember him saying it was in he lift) Ben bumped into George Martin, where discussion about SQ brought about George turning the discussion to a recent Quad test mix of the first side of "St Pepper...", which he was just carrying with him (possibly just cut?)

It was felt the mix wasn't good enough for commercial release because it was felt the SQ encoding was substandard because there wasn't the flexibility during the re-mixing resulting in an SQ master that didn't perform well on decode.

And that is what I was told. Not much, but it's the facts.

There may still be that single sided (acetate?) hidden in the vaults, along with a tape of the experimental Quad mix. Perhaps it's best they are left where they rest.

Richard

kinda strange.. OD is sending you things to post on his behalf.. why don't you just unban him/let him come back?

 

[fredblue]

I believe Bert White had a copy of that single sided "Pepper " album.

Lucky bugger.....he also had copies of Carlos' s CD-4 Clockwork Orange and Carlos hit album also in CD-4 among many other rare Quad albums.

Bert White was an early quadrophile working for Audio Magazine in the U.S. and actively promoted quad through his many editorials.



Now as to the Love You disc , I know of 2 tracks that were from the Surfs Up time period (71). The album states so, but I do not have a copy. And never checked out their DY or Virtual Surround capabilities.
Perhaps QS would be a good choice to hear them.

And yes,,,, Brian Wilson might be the best contact provided he worked on that release.


I wonder if the virtual suround is a "warble " effect acheived from the cutting lathe ? (Could indeed provide strange out of phase properties if so )

i think QQ member Bill Brent may have those Wendy Carlos CD-4's?

 

[timbre4]

i think QQ member Bill Brent may have those Wendy Carlos CD-4's?

He has the only test CD-4 pressing (acetate? not vinyl) that W. Carlos prepared that I'm aware of; it is a single side that includes several Switched On Bach selections and two rarities (one from Clockwork Orange and a tune called Country Lane that appears in a stereo collection in later years). Neat curiosity but if there are supposed to be other WC albums in CD-4 I've never seen them.

 

[fredblue]

He has the only test CD-4 pressing (acetate? not vinyl) that W. Carlos prepared that I'm aware of; it is a single side that includes several Switched On Bach selections and two rarities (one from Clockwork Orange and a tune called Country Lane that appears in a stereo collection in later years). Neat curiosity but if there are supposed to be other WC albums in CD-4 I've never seen them.

wow.. you'd have to be gentle with a CD-4 acetate, i'm sure Bill knows how to treat Wendy's prized disc with TLC and got a great transfer out of it.

 

[JonUrban]

kinda strange.. OD is sending you things to post on his behalf.. why don't you just unban him/let him come back?

I have extended an olive branch in the past but he does not want to come back.

 

[timbre4]

wow.. you'd have to be gentle with a CD-4 acetate, i'm sure Bill knows how to treat Wendy's prized disc with TLC and got a great transfer out of it.

Well... every time it gets played the surface noise increases. It's still decent for what it is.

 

[MidiMagic]

has it been definitively proven those Japanese Toshiba Quads of Atom Heart Mother, Dark Side Of The Moon, Imagine, etc are RM-encoded and not just the SQ mislabelled?

Play them in SQ and see if there is back separation. If not, or if only the LB speaker has signal, it is probably RM/QS.

Feed the stereo channels to an X-Y oscilloscope. Circular motion of the trace indicates SQ. Mostly linear motions indicate RM.

 

[fredblue]

Play them in SQ and see if there is back separation. If not, or if only the LB speaker has signal, it is probably RM/QS.

Feed the stereo channels to an X-Y oscilloscope. Circular motion of the trace indicates SQ. Mostly linear motions indicate RM.

thanks for the technical info.

i don't own the Toshiba LPs or i would've checked how they decoded already.

what fascinates me is they get brought up every now and again as examples of matrix-encoded Quads that used one encoding system in one territory and a different matrix-encoding system in another region.

it just seems improbable to me that Toshiba would've re-encoded those Quads to QS for the Japanese market.

it feels more likely they were the same SQ LPs as in the UK, Germany and Australia but Toshiba were billing them as RM as a more general term, or perhaps more cynically to avoid paying royalties to CBS...?

 

[MidiMagic]

They would have to re-encode them from the master tapes to change matrix systems.

That is, unless they are changing between RM and QM matrix systems. Then a slight amount of blend or antiblend applied to the recording is enough.

It is almost impossible to look at the signal on a record and detect which RM or QM system is used, especially if sounds are panned between the speakers. QS, EV4, DQ, and the others look so much alike in the groove that they are often indistinguishable.

 

[quadtrade]

I have extended an olive branch in the past but he does not want to come back.

Come back. sounds like a painful intrusion. Lots of wasted time chasing him

 

[fredblue]

They would have to re-encode them from the master tapes to change matrix systems.

That is, unless they are changing between RM and QM matrix systems. Then a slight amount of blend or antiblend applied to the recording is enough.

It is almost impossible to look at the signal on a record and detect which RM or QM system is used, especially if sounds are panned between the speakers. QS, EV4, DQ, and the others look so much alike in the groove that they are often indistinguishable.

crikey.. i imagine going from SQ to QS/RM requiring a completely fresh encode from the mastertapes would've been too expensive and a logistical hassle too far.

cynical old me reckons its more likely they're just the same SQ and they simply slapped RM on to help shift units to an unsuspecting and Quad software starved record buying public out there.

i'll buy a copy of the Japanese RM of DSOTM when (or rather if!) finances sufficiently improve and compare it to the SQ.. see what's what what

 

[jaybird100]

has it been definitively proven those Japanese Toshiba Quads of Atom Heart Mother, Dark Side Of The Moon, Imagine, etc are RM-encoded and not just the SQ mislabelled?

They're actually QS. I have the DSOTM Japanese quad vinyl; it's clearly not SQ. I couldn't imagine Toshiba being that deceiving. I've heard needledrops of the other albums you mentioned, and they decode perfectly in QS.

 

[fredblue]

They're actually QS. I have the DSOTM Japanese quad vinyl; it's clearly not SQ. I couldn't imagine Toshiba being that deceiving. I've heard needledrops of the other albums you mentioned, and they decode perfectly in QS.

thank you for the information.

when you have a chance could you check whats in the deadwax of your Japanese DSOTM RM LP, please?

edit: please don't worry, i already found the answer after doing a little snooping, it came from your good self no less! from back in 2007

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/dark-side-of-the-moon-cd-in-qs.4659/#post-69952

 

[jaybird100]

thank you for the information.

when you have a chance could you check whats in the deadwax of your Japanese DSOTM RM LP, please?

edit: please don't worry, i already found the answer after doing a little snooping, it came from your good self no less! from back in 2007

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/dark-side-of-the-moon-cd-in-qs.4659/#post-69952
View attachment 50778

The number in the dead wax is 4QSHVL-804A/B. The EMZ82005 is the catalog number. Play this one through an SQ decoder, all rear separation is lost. In QS/RM, it's awesome.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

crikey.. i imagine going from SQ to QS/RM requiring a completely fresh encode from the mastertapes would've been too expensive and a logistical hassle too far.

cynical old me reckons its more likely they're just the same SQ and they simply slapped RM on to help shift units to an unsuspecting and Quad software starved record buying public out there.

i'll buy a copy of the Japanese RM of DSOTM when (or rather if!) finances sufficiently improve and compare it to the SQ.. see what's what what

This would not have been difficult for Toshiba to encode from 4ch masters for QS.

QS was the dominant matrix in Japan afterall, and Toshiba became a large licencee. Sansui would have insisted.... if not , the Japanese quadraphiles.

 

[Bill Brent]

He has the only test CD-4 pressing (acetate? not vinyl) that W. Carlos prepared that I'm aware of; it is a single side that includes several Switched On Bach selections and two rarities (one from Clockwork Orange and a tune called Country Lane that appears in a stereo collection in later years). Neat curiosity but if there are supposed to be other WC albums in CD-4 I've never seen them.

not single sided - but two doubles - running less than 15min per side one had the SON+country lane the other had two of the seasons

 

[timbre4]

not single sided - but two doubles - running less than 15min per side one had the SON+country lane the other had two of the seasons

Thanks for clarification Bill!