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humprof

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This week's new sale title at eClassical: Haydn String Quartets, Op. 76, nos. 1-3. Chiaroscuro Quartet.

BIS titles are usually ambiance-in-the-rears, although some titles feature "bigger" ambiance than others. I'm basing that generalization on orchestral titles, though; I don't think I have any of their chamber-music titles, and I haven't heard the earlier entries in this series.

 

ubertrout

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So, as far as DG's releases of analog recordings in surround sound, I think they were typically quad sourced, with a fake center channel. This is the Dies Irae from the Karajan recording of the Mozart Requiem off the DVD-A, for instance. Note the volume of the rears and the fronts are the same, with a quieter fake center.
KarajanMozartDVDA.png


Compare that with a known (and admitted upmix) - the Eloquence SACD of Bernstein conducting the Beethoven 9th (last movement here). You can see the quieter rears. This is a pretty uniform trend in DG's quad-sourced versus upmixed material.

BernsteinVPOBeethovenSACD.png
 

mwhealton

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So, as far as DG's releases of analog recordings in surround sound, I think they were typically quad sourced, with a fake center channel. This is the Dies Irae from the Karajan recording of the Mozart Requiem off the DVD-A, for instance. Note the volume of the rears and the fronts are the same, with a quieter fake center.
<image snipped>

Compare that with a known (and admitted upmix) - the Eloquence SACD of Bernstein conducting the Beethoven 9th (last movement here). You can see the quieter rears. This is a pretty uniform trend in DG's quad-sourced versus upmixed material.

<image snipped>
Thank you! That looks to be a very helpful way to analyze what is going on in these recordings. As a desideratum, a full(ish) catalog of spectra would remove loads of uncertainty and speculation. It could potentially be applied to other studios and labels as well, I imagine.
I am _not_ implying that would be your job UberTrout, but it could be a valuable resource if funding, skilled people, and time could come together.
 

ubertrout

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I did a similar analysis on the Kleiber Beethoven DVD-Audio, which shows similar results - the rears are a bit lower than the fronts but much louder than the center, which strongly suggests a quad mix with a fake center (fourth movement pictured, because that's a good test of max levels).

KleiberBeethoven5-4.jpg
 

ubertrout

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By contrast, this is the first movement of the Schubert 3rd Symphony from the same BD-A as the Beethoven (I sourced the Beethoven from the DVD, but it's on the "complete orchestral" BD-A as well), which is an upmix from a stereo analog source.

KleiberSchubert3-1.png
 

humprof

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Anyone have "Well-Tempered Clavier" recommendations? Watching Jeremy Denk's charming WQXR podcast made me realize I somehow don't have a recording of this.

I know surround doesn't have a huge advantage over stereo (or an all-channel stereo DSP setting) when it comes to solo instruments, although I do think that Pierre-Laurent Aimard's Catalogue d'Oiseux on Pentatone (for instance) sounds more spacious in 5.1. But that may be a moot point, as I'm having trouble finding any surround versions of WTC, apart from Christophe Rousset's on Aparté (Book 1 | Book 2) and Mayako Sone's on Avex (Book 1 only?)--and to be honest, I prefer to piano to harpsichord.

As for piano versions: I love Gould generally, and I see that his recordings exist on Japanese stereo SACD, although I also know that his eccentricities are now a bit out of fashion. Beyond that: Thomas Günther? There seems to be a lot of buzz about Andras Schiff's recent outing for ECM, and of course those are RBCD only, but Naxos has also released Blu-Rays of Schiff's live performances at the Proms with 5.1 DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtracks (Book 1 | Book 2).

Thoughts?
 
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bluelightning

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Anyone have "Well-Tempered Clavier" recommendations? Watching Jeremy Denk's charming WQXR podcast made me realize I somehow don't have a recording of this.

I know surround doesn't have a huge advantage over stereo (or an all-channel stereo DSP setting) when it comes to solo instruments, although I do think Pierre-Laurent Aimard's Catalogue d'Oiseux on Pentatone sounds more spacious in 5.1. But that may be a moot point, as I'm having trouble finding any surround versions of the WTC, apart from Christophe Rousset's on Aparté (Book 1 | Book 2) and Mayako Sone's on Avex (Book 1 only?)--and to be honest, I prefer to piano to harpsichord.

As for piano versions: I love Gould generally, and I see that his recordings exist on Japanese stereo SACD, although I also know that his eccentricities are now a bit out of fashion. Beyond that: Thomas Günther? There seems to be a lot of buzz about Andras Schiff's recent outing for ECM, and of course those are RBCD only, but Naxos has also released Blu-Rays of Schiff's live performances at the Proms with 5.1 DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtracks (Book 1 | Book 2).

Thoughts?
Not a fan of WTC personally, but there is Sviatoslav Richter's WTC, which is considered by many an essential WTC set.
 

ubertrout

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Anyone have "Well-Tempered Clavier" recommendations? Watching Jeremy Denk's charming WQXR podcast made me realize I somehow don't have a recording of this.

I know surround doesn't have a huge advantage over stereo (or an all-channel stereo DSP setting) when it comes to solo instruments, although I do think Pierre-Laurent Aimard's Catalogue d'Oiseux on Pentatone sounds more spacious in 5.1. But that may be a moot point, as I'm having trouble finding any surround versions of the WTC, apart from Christophe Rousset's on Aparté (Book 1 | Book 2) and Mayako Sone's on Avex (Book 1 only?)--and to be honest, I prefer to piano to harpsichord.

As for piano versions: I love Gould generally, and I see that his recordings exist on Japanese stereo SACD, although I also know that his eccentricities are now a bit out of fashion. Beyond that: Thomas Günther? There seems to be a lot of buzz about Andras Schiff's recent outing for ECM, and of course those are RBCD only, but Naxos has also released Blu-Rays of Schiff's live performances at the Proms with 5.1 DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtracks (Book 1 | Book 2).

Thoughts?
Interesting question - I don't really see much. I agree that the surround element might be seen as less vital.

On the other hand, this is in Dolby Surround...

 

humprof

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After scoring a cheap copy of Rattle's Mahler 10th a couple of years ago, I didn't think I'd ever need another version of it--until I read this review in Stereophile comparing it (unfavorably) to Thomas Dausgaard's recording, also of the final Deryck Cooke version, with the Seattle Symphony.

So since I was thinking of springing for another multi-channel FLAC download at Acoustic Sounds anyway, I decided to go all-in and get this one, too. I'm not sorry I did. (Although don't get me started kvetching about AS's prices and website.) It's not as dry and close-mic'd as the Rattle, but it's truly powerful, and as with Rattle there's plenty going on in the rears throughout. Makes me want to get more from the Seattle Symphony's house label.

The other piece I bought, by the way, was the JACK Quartet's recording of John Luther Adams's Everything That Rises, a mesmerizing hourlong listen. I wrote on another thread about how the label's engineer assured me that the piece was recorded 2L-style, uber-discrete (he included a picture), and he wasn't lying. Sit in the center and turn it up loud. It's a stunner.

Anyway: two of the better classical recordings I've gotten so far this year. Currently 15% off, for what it's worth.


 
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ubertrout

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Just got the Kleiber recording of Die Fledermaus on 2-CD/Blu-Ray Audio. The packaging doesn't make it entirely clear but there's 24/192 stereo and 5.1 audio, and also a Dolby Atmos Track (but only at 24/48). The 5.1 track is pretty clearly a repurposed quad mix - this is the overture.
 

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Clement

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i am really enjoying the surround mix:
1589752918291.png

 

4-earredwonder

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i am really enjoying the surround mix:
View attachment 51254
SO glad you're enjoying it, Clement. Superb recording and performances.

I took your advice and ordered: [BTW, becoming as scarce as Hen's Teeth: Presto Classical is only offering downloads/AmazonUK/Import CD: OUT of STOCK. Had to order from AmazonUS. Thanks for the recommendation.

See the source image



 
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bluelightning

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After scoring a cheap copy of Rattle's Mahler 10th a couple of years ago, I didn't think I'd ever need another version of it--until I read this review in Stereophile comparing it (unfavorably) to Thomas Dausgaard's recording, also of the final Deryck Cooke version, with the Seattle Symphony.

So since I was thinking of springing for another multi-channel FLAC download at Acoustic Sounds anyway, I decided to go all-in and get this one, too. I'm not sorry I did. (Although don't get me started kvetching about AS's prices and website.) It's not as dry and close-mic'd as the Rattle, but it's truly powerful, and as with Rattle there's plenty going on in the rears throughout. Makes me want to get more from the Seattle Symphony's house label.

The other piece I bought, by the way, was the JACK Quartet's recording of John Luther Adams's Everything That Rises, a mesmerizing hourlong listen. I wrote on another thread about how the label's engineer assured me that the piece was recorded 2L-style, uber-discrete (he included a picture), and he wasn't lying. Sit in the center and turn it up loud. It's a stunner.

Anyway: two of the better classical recordings I've gotten so far this year. Currently 15% off, for what it's worth.


While you are talking about Mahler 10's, there is one that you must get. It is Rudolph Barshai conducting the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie. It is on red book CD coupled with an equally intense 5th. Admittedly the recording is a bit bright for me, but I think the performance more than makes up for it.
 

humprof

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While you are talking about Mahler 10's, there is one that you must get. It is Rudolph Barshai conducting the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie. It is on red book CD coupled with an equally intense 5th. Admittedly the recording is a bit bright for me, but I think the performance more than makes up for it.
Yes--I have that one (and admire it), too. A different orchestration/"completion" of the work, and a terrific performance. If only that one were available in surround!
 

4-earredwonder

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These have been considered definitive for a long time. The question is , do they sound any better than their red book incarnation?
For $16.44, who cares! A Grand Piano has a VERY WIDE DYNAMIC RANGE so if you had a choice between 16/44.1 or 192/24, which would YOU choose?

 
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