Quantcast

SPOTLIGHT The classical music general discussion thread

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
15,228

Monkish

Active Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
95
Location
OK
Boulez-Falla:
Mixed by Ray Moore.

Boulez-Ravel:
Mixed by Ray Moore.

Bernstein-Stravinsky:
Mixed by Larry Keyes.

Stokowski-Beethoven:
Mixer unknown?

Stokowski-Mahler:
Mixer unknown?
Has anyone heard the original LPs of any of these (or transfers thereof) to where you can speak on the level of discreteness/separation?

Also, I’m curious: so, the Bernstein-Stravinsky disc combines the existing quad mix of Rite Of Spring with Michael Dutton’s new quad mixes of the Poulenc Gloria and Stravinsky Symphony Of Psalms.

Has Michael done new quad mixes of classical rep before? If so, how “quaddy” is he able to get as far as mixing from the original multitracks? In other words, will the Gloria and Symphony Of Psalms likely just be ambient, if they weren’t originally recorded with quad in mind?
 

ubertrout

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
1,612
Has anyone heard the original LPs of any of these (or transfers thereof) to where you can speak on the level of discreteness/separation?

Also, I’m curious: so, the Bernstein-Stravinsky disc combines the existing quad mix of Rite Of Spring with Michael Dutton’s new quad mixes of the Poulenc Gloria and Stravinsky Symphony Of Psalms.

Has Michael done new quad mixes of classical rep before? If so, how “quaddy” is he able to get as far as mixing from the original multitracks? In other words, will the Gloria and Symphony Of Psalms likely just be ambient, if they weren’t originally recorded with quad in mind?
It's actually only a new mix of the Poulenc. A quad mix of the Symphony of Psalms has been available as a bootleg for years now, one of the reels Mike Robins was selling. This one is from the master tape I'd assume.

I really like Michael Dutton's mixing. It's more aggressive than you'd typically see nowadays, very much in the style of the 70s quad mixes. However, because he has access to the original session multitracks, the fidelity tends to be superb, much better than the vintage quad tapes. Compare his mix of the Lt. Kije suite to the vintage quad mix of the Alexander Nevsky cantata...
 

GOS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
15,104
Location
Central Illinois
So, from the new DV releases......which are absolute MUST HAVES? Oh please, don't tell me all of them. :)
 

mkt

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2020
Messages
23
Location
USA
Here's something with very nice performances and sound, and that, if Roon is to be believed, I have no other versions of.


To my ear, none of the other Audite recording that I have are quite so enjoyable.
 

steelydave

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
2,235
Location
Toronto, ON
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out elsewhere, but the bonus track on new Epoch release of Boulez conducting Falla's The Three Cornered Hat (CDLX 7384), Dukas' La Peri, completes the release of another full quad album, Columbia Masterworks M 34201. The other half of this LP, Roussel's Symphony No. 3 In G Minor, Op. 42 is the bonus track on the 2019 Epoch release of Boulez conducting Schoenberg's Gurre-Lieder (2CDLX 7367).

The Symphony No.3/La Peri album was released only as a single-inventory SQ LP so this new SACD represents the first release anywhere of the discrete quad mix of that La Peri portion of the album.
 

humprof

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,460
Location
NoCal
Here's something with very nice performances and sound, and that, if Roon is to be believed, I have no other versions of.


To my ear, none of the other Audite recording that I have are quite so enjoyable.
And Audite offers reasonably-priced surround downloads!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mkt

humprof

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,460
Location
NoCal
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out elsewhere, but the bonus track on new Epoch release of Boulez conducting Falla's The Three Cornered Hat (CDLX 7384), Dukas' La Peri, completes the release of another full quad album, Columbia Masterworks M 34201. The other half of this LP, Roussel's Symphony No. 3 In G Minor, Op. 42 is the bonus track on the 2019 Epoch release of Boulez conducting Schoenberg's Gurre-Lieder (2CDLX 7367).

The Symphony No.3/La Peri album was released only as a single-inventory SQ LP so this new SACD represents the first release anywhere of the discrete quad mix of that La Peri portion of the album.
I feel like I need a D-V scorecard to keep track of all this. . . .
 

steelydave

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
2,235
Location
Toronto, ON
Ask and @ubertrout shall bless thee:

 

humprof

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,460
Location
NoCal
Ask and @ubertrout shall bless thee:

I'd totally forgotten about that! (And I'm glad he has the ability to keep editing it.)
 

Old Quad Guy

Preservationist
Staff member
Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
3,171
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Yes, please tell us about the ins and outs of these releases and their importance in terms of history, or just what you like.

I’m enjoying Classical and Opera music before and during the pandemic. There’s a Public radio station with a deep catalog of Opera hosted by someone informative here: At the Opera

Highly recommend, whether you’re new or familiar with the music. And it’s free.
 

Monkish

Active Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
95
Location
OK
It's actually only a new mix of the Poulenc. A quad mix of the Symphony of Psalms has been available as a bootleg for years now, one of the reels Mike Robins was selling. This one is from the master tape I'd assume.

I really like Michael Dutton's mixing. It's more aggressive than you'd typically see nowadays, very much in the style of the 70s quad mixes. However, because he has access to the original session multitracks, the fidelity tends to be superb, much better than the vintage quad tapes. Compare his mix of the Lt. Kije suite to the vintage quad mix of the Alexander Nevsky cantata...
Thanks for the clarification and feedback!

I really really wish D/V would provide 30-second samples of their SACD quad content, so I wouldn’t feel like I was diving in blind. I’m so tempted to place a big classical order, but I’m afraid the discs won’t end up discrete enough for my tastes. The only D/V classical(ish) SACD I’ve taken a chance on so far is the Bernard Herrmann film score one, and although I love his music, I didn’t find a ton of discrete excitement to my ears.

So... if I’m significantly more of a discrete guy than an immersive guy... if a priority to me is stuff tickling my ears from the rears (not that I want a totally incoherent mix, of course)... if I’m a big fan of the mixes on, say, the Elton John SACDS, or Fragile, or Larks’ Tongues In Aspic, or (in the D/V library) the Earth Wind & Fire 2fer or Tale Spinnin’... which of D/V’s classical issues are likely to make me the happiest?

Or are my ears the problem, and I just need to recalibrate my expectations for classical quad?
 

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
15,228
Thanks for the clarification and feedback!

I really really wish D/V would provide 30-second samples of their SACD quad content, so I wouldn’t feel like I was diving in blind. I’m so tempted to place a big classical order, but I’m afraid the discs won’t end up discrete enough for my tastes. The only D/V classical(ish) SACD I’ve taken a chance on so far is the Bernard Herrmann film score one, and although I love his music, I didn’t find a ton of discrete excitement to my ears.

So... if I’m significantly more of a discrete guy than an immersive guy... if a priority to me is stuff tickling my ears from the rears (not that I want a totally incoherent mix, of course)... if I’m a big fan of the mixes on, say, the Elton John SACDS, or Fragile, or Larks’ Tongues In Aspic, or (in the D/V library) the Earth Wind & Fire 2fer or Tale Spinnin’... which of D/V’s classical issues are likely to make me the happiest?

Or are my ears the problem, and I just need to recalibrate my expectations for classical quad?
Of the 'roughly' 15K SACDs released to date since the late 90's to present, MOST of them remain Classical and only a handful are really discrete...and most of them hail from that early to mid 70's period when labels like RCA and Columbia [now SONY] were pushing their various matrix systems.

The classical label TACET known for their REAL SURROUND discrete classical mixes is probably the exception but if you want to really hear a full blown Beethoven Ninth in DISCRETE surround, the TACET 9th is NOT IT [but remains highly enjoyable].

And if you're a frequent reader of QQ forum, even a LOT of the Rock, Pop and Jazz multichannel SACDs and DVD~Vs produced today lack in what I would term high quality surround remixes.

But if you enjoy all types of music [I know I DO], in terms of discreteness, I take the good with the bad as long as the performances are worthy and in most cases with Classical, the recordings are state of the art, are UNCOMPRESSED, and will tax even the FINEST of audio systems [read separate components and credible tower speakers].

A few years ago, classical label Pentatone embarked on releasing literally dozens of very high quality QUAD SACDs from European labels Philips and DGG and out of those only a handful had any discrete elements and most of them were operas [like Leonard Bernsteins CARMEN]. These QUAD treasures were NEVER until that time released even as physical QUAD LPs but those performances are legendary and well worth adding to one's collection.

Before I go any further, I LOVE discrete surround as much as the next 'guy' but I also love beautiful, well performed, well recorded music and just sampling a few seconds of a classical piece is hardly representative of the piece itself.

I do own ALL the classical multichannel/stereo SACDs released by Dutton Vocalion and LOVE THEM ALL. They are superbly remastered from the original QUAD/Stereo analogue masters and while some are way more discrete than others, with the bonus tracks included on most of those SACDs and at the price D~V is charging, no brainer purchases, IMO. If you do NOT like opera [I'm really not a big fan] steer clear of them but also realize all of them are LIMITED EDITIONS and once they're gone ... you'll be paying outrageous prices on ebay, etc.

I just posted in the D~V thread that their new batch of 11 Rock/Jazz and Classical SACDs represent over 20 single LP Discs [stereo and QUAD] and with priority s/h from the UK to the States are priced at under $10 per single LP. When one considers what US reissue companies AP and MoFi charge for a single Stereo/MONO SACD [$30 list with little to no discounting], D~V is literally giving their SACDs away. But rather than take my word for it, carefully research each title and make up your own mind and read the various reviews on QQ forum to finalize your purchasing decisions.

In any event, happy listening!
 

ubertrout

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
1,612
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out elsewhere, but the bonus track on new Epoch release of Boulez conducting Falla's The Three Cornered Hat (CDLX 7384), Dukas' La Peri, completes the release of another full quad album, Columbia Masterworks M 34201. The other half of this LP, Roussel's Symphony No. 3 In G Minor, Op. 42 is the bonus track on the 2019 Epoch release of Boulez conducting Schoenberg's Gurre-Lieder (2CDLX 7367).

The Symphony No.3/La Peri album was released only as a single-inventory SQ LP so this new SACD represents the first release anywhere of the discrete quad mix of that La Peri portion of the album.
If people are wondering who Paul Dukas was, a reminder you've all heard (presumably) at least one thing by him (which is conducted by Leopold Stokowski, in his first venture into surround sound in 1938):
 
Top