The Legacy of Dr Bauer

[kfbkfb]

An SQ position encoder outputs Lt and Rt (SQ encoded stereo), several SQ position encoders can be used in parallel since their outputs are independent and the resulting LeftTotals and RightTotals can just be added together.

https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2010I did a quick Google search for "SQ position encoder" and found this AES paper (I'm not a member, so I could only read the summary), that AES paper will probably reveal the magic.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Soundfield]

No, sorry, no magic, the Position Encoder was not an SQ Encoder. It was simply a Pan Pot add-on to an SQ Encoder, Recording Magazine described it thus-

 

[kfbkfb]

(you're going to make go thru my photocopies from about 45 years ago to find those vector diagrams)

The RE/P article is good, but it does have (IMHO) some errors - the CD-4 to stereo folddown - CL and CR map to L and R, not between L and C and R and C.


Kirk Bayne

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I wonder , Does anyone have a decent picture of the SQ Encoder that EMI had manufactured for their Abbey Road Studio , or any Studio.

I have just realised that the CBS Position Encoder was not an SQ Matrix Encoder and was used earlier in the production chain. The use of the term 'encoder' in two different contexts is rather confusing.

View attachment 68518

The "Postion Encoder" didn't really encode anything. It was what we in the engineering trade would have called a "bodge box"!

Maybe I'm missing something here but.....
Wouldn't a joy stick installed in the mixing console do the job of an effective pan pot ?
Just wondering.

 

[MidiMagic]

I have a paper copy of the AES article above (sent to me by Bauer along with the sampler record), but no way to convert it to digital images. It has a better diagram of how the position encoder works.

There are actually two SQ encoders in it - the forward-oriented encoder and the backward-oriented encoder. Each position encoder control selected the forward encoder or the backward encoder according to the wanted direction.

The position encoder had several input channel strips, each with a position control. It also had several joystick strips that fed the front channels of the forward encoder and the back channels of the backward encoder.

 

[vinylguy4]

SQT-1100 compliments of Dr. Bauer.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

This has certainly turned into an interesting conversation. Based on prior knowledge of the SQ Position Encoder (any patents for this?) I visualized the SQ PE to be the various flavors of forward/backward/corner SQ encoders with inputs as appropriate to each one, and a summed SQ Lt/Rt output. To realize it is more of a pre-encoder with 4 ch outputs still needing final SQ encoding,well, that's really hard to wrap my head around.

Over all a great example of how SQ encoding seems so easy & simple in concept becomes a convoluted mess full of fixes to make it work as needed. All that 70's circuitry doing phase shifts the hard way, the mastering & record lathe cutting, the final disc on the TT & cartridge with variations, various direction sensing logic & gain control done in very crude ways for most SQ decoders... it's amazing anything worked at all.

 

[kfbkfb]

I have a paper copy of the AES article above (sent to me by Bauer along with the sampler record), but no way to convert it to digital images. It has a better diagram of how the position encoder works.

I bought an basic HP scanner/printer at Walmart (don't recall the price, but it wasn't very much).

The scans I posted in the QQ library were done with it.


Kirk Bayne

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I've got this piece of old news about Ben Bauer, from Billboard.

Both Inoyue and Ben Bauer were given awards for their work on Quad Matrix at this years 1973 Montreaux Jazz Festival. (October 03rd 1973 ; 25)

FWIW Ben Bauer received many such awards and high praise throughout his tenure at CBS .

Whoa !
I just realized Inoyue was the inventor of CD-4 and worked (of course) for JVC.
Also interesting to note that CLAUDE NOBS of Montreaux Jazz Festival fame ...was employed by WEA Europe in Switzerland, to promote CD-4 .
Although this was not a sticking point for Claude , as he let Ed Michel use his quad mixing console for the festival .
And for use by attending producers and engineers , mixing their artists... for free.

 

[MidiMagic]

I bought an basic HP scanner/printer at Walmart (don't recall the price, but it wasn't very much).

The scans I posted in the QQ library were done with it.


Kirk Bayne

I had one, but a tree fell on my media room and I am not replacing damaged equipment until the room repairs (delayed by pandemic rules) are done.

 

[MidiMagic]

I have a paper copy of the AES article above (sent to me by Bauer along with the sampler record), but no way to convert it to digital images. It has a better diagram of how the position encoder works.

There are actually two SQ encoders in it - the forward-oriented encoder and the backward-oriented encoder. Each position encoder control selected the forward encoder or the backward encoder according to the wanted direction.

The position encoder had several input channel strips, each with a position control. It also had several joystick strips that fed the front channels of the forward encoder and the back channels of the backward encoder.

Here is the image (Thanks to DuncanS):

It shows what is effectively inside the position encoder. The diagram on the next page shows only one encoder, but it could not work that way for all positions. It would have to have the connections as in this diagram. The discrete outputs would be the mix buses attached to the panpot on the left.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://books.google.com/books?id=A...EAM#v=onepage&q=bbc matrix quad tests&f=false^^^
SQ's strength is sticking to principles


It's too bad CBS didn't do more SQ single inventory albums (although I consider Matrix surround sound systems akin to "stereo and a half" [IIRC, coined by Louis Dorren], it's still more than stereo) and with a mild logic decoder that offers ~12dB max separation, logic action artifacts could be greatly reduced.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Here is the image (Thanks to DuncanS):

View attachment 68570

It shows what is effectively inside the position encoder. The diagram on the next page shows only one encoder, but it could not work that way for all positions. It would have to have the connections as in this diagram. The discrete outputs would be the mix buses attached to the panpot on the left.

I'm a bit confused (it's so easy). In post #36 by @Soundfield the diagram shows 4 outputs from the Position Encoder going to the 4 inputs on a secondary SQ encoder. This most recent SQ PE diagram shows the way I have historically understood the PE to work, by paralleling the forward/backward encoders to Lt/Rt output. Can anyone un-confuse me?

 

[Soundfield]

I think the confusion arises because of timing of these publications and what people might be thinking was "THE" Positional Encoder. The AES paper is largely describing the possible rather than what was currently available H/W. It only gives one CBS model number for any extant equipment - SQ Encoder 4200. The other hardware implementations are as yet only possibilities and suggestions and experiments and thus not referred to by model number-

Recording magazine a year latter describes a real CBS Positional Encoder, the 4212. It seems that the practical implementation turned out slightly differently from the speculation in the AES paper. But really it just meant that the physical boundaries of the position encoder and the SQ encoder could be shown as being-

(Thanks Duncan)

 

[par4ken]

I have just realised that the CBS Position Encoder was not an SQ Matrix Encoder and was used earlier in the production chain. The use of the term 'encoder' in two different contexts is rather confusing.

View attachment 68518

The "Postion Encoder" didn't really encode anything. It was what we in the engineering trade would have called a "bodge box"!

I believe that that drawing is a simplification, position encoding would require a forward oriented encoder and a backward oriented encoder used simultaneously. No model number given for the encoder, it could be that the intended model has the capability of forward and backward encoding being done simultaneously. It would be nice to see a schematic of all the encoding modules, to know for sure what is going on!

 

[par4ken]

An SQ position encoder outputs Lt and Rt (SQ encoded stereo), several SQ position encoders can be used in parallel since their outputs are independent and the resulting LeftTotals and RightTotals can just be added together.

https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2010I did a quick Google search for "SQ position encoder" and found this AES paper (I'm not a member, so I could only read the summary), that AES paper will probably reveal the magic.


Kirk Bayne

Here is the AES paper copied from my copy of "Quadraphony". It was meant to be all one document but I messed up the first two pages!

 

[Soundfield]

I believe that that drawing is a simplification, position encoding would require a forward oriented encoder and a backward oriented encoder used simultaneously. No model number given for the encoder, it could be that the intended model has the capability of forward and backward encoding being done simultaneously. It would be nice to see a schematic of all the encoding modules, to know for sure what is going on!

No that diagram is not a simplification, that was exactly done what was done with SQ Encoder 4211. It did indeed contain both the Forward and Backward functions. It was connected to the standalone Position Encoder as shown in the diagram and described below:

The prices for all of these components were also separately listed:

The 4211 Encoder is pictured here on QQ:
CBS SQ Encoder 4211

 

[par4ken]

No that diagram is not a simplification, that was exactly done what was done with SQ Encoder 4211. It did indeed contain both the Forward and Backward functions. It was connected to the standalone Position Encoder as shown in the diagram and described below:
View attachment 68738
The prices for all of these components were also separately listed:
View attachment 68739
The 4211 Encoder is pictured here on QQ:
CBS SQ Encoder 4211

So as I said it is a simplification as the encoder uses both forward and backwards encoding, position encoding will not work with a basic encoder. The 4211 has twelve inputs!! I would love to see schematics of these units!

 

[Soundfield]

So as I said it is a simplification as the encoder uses both forward and backwards encoding, it will not work with a basic encoder. The 4211 has twelve inputs!! I would love to see schematics of these units!

I don't see as a 'simplification' as that box performs those two functions. You could show those in dotted boxes inside the SQ Encoder if you wanted to, but that doesn't change the physical implementation (in terms of equipment boundaries). Anyway the whole point of this argument was to dispel the false idea that the Positional Encoder was the unit in which forward and backward SQ encoding was conducted!!

 

[kfbkfb]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_decoder^^^
Position Encoder
An N/2 encoder that encoded every position in a 360° circle - it had 16 inputs and each could be dialed to the exact direction desired, generating an optimized encode. (best description I've read so far)


(I haven't located an image of a 4212 SQ Position Encoder, maybe someone with the Buddy Rich DVD could capture a freeze frame [from the extra/bonus content] of the SQ Position Encoder they used)


Kirk Bayne