The Pineapple Thief - Nothing But The Truth (Dolby Atmos/5.1)

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sjcorne

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Yeah, the 5.1 mix is definitely interesting. Bruce's lead vocal is suspended in the middle of the room (though it seems to slightly favor the rear speakers on my system), while the backing vocals come primarily from left rear. Gavin's drums fill the entire listening space as well. Plenty of isolated elements in the back though - guitar solos, percussion, keys, etc. Sonics are among the best I've heard for a live recording.
 

AYanguas

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I don’t understand why it is only available in Amazon.uk and Amazon.de. ☹
I think also in amazon.it

In this country we have to assume the low penetration of certain styles of music, such as ProgRock.
Also expensive releases (Blu-ray or Deluxe editions) may have less demand here, and amazon knows it.

But thanks to globality, we can buy online almost anywhere in the world. Of course with different taxes and shipping charges.
 

AYanguas

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I understand why some people does not like the Bruce main vocals Atmos mix location.

It is good for me to explore new vocals locations, not only the traditional front center, but the way Bruce has done it in this Atmos mix could be enhanced, IMO.

The issue here, I think, is that the Bruce vocals come almost only from the two surrounds, leaking a minimum echo/reverb, to the rest of speakers. This sensation is lower for me in the 5.1 mix, with more relative amount of voice sound from the rest of speakers. Also, I hear some improvement if I decrease about 2dB the surrounds level in the Atmos mix.

In my room, with the surrounds at the sides (90º), I hear a good “inside my head” Bruce voice, but only in a very narrow sweet spot, just in the middle. Moving my head just a little to any side, and I hear the Bruce voice coming from that side due to a remarkable precedence effect.

I think that if the voice would have been “expanded” more to other all-around locations, the confined center voice in the narrow sweet spot would be less annoying, and a bigger bubble dome for the Bruce voice would be better. Even changing from time to time from floor level locations to the tops location to get a dome voice coming from above. (VOG ;))
 

Sal1950

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I believe we are stepping into a new paradigm of reproduction where the old "open window to the stage" is being ignored and the artists/engineers are making up a new artistic view of the music's presentation. I know it doesn't sit well with many who think it gimmickry or whatever,
I myself am mostly enjoying it. With all these new tools at hand what are we to do with them if all people want done is a little extra ambiance on stereo? I think we've been down that road a couple times now and surround sound has mostly failed because of it.
YMMV
 

perzon57

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I understand why some people does not like the Bruce main vocals Atmos mix location.

It is good for me to explore new vocals locations, not only the traditional front center, but the way Bruce has done it in this Atmos mix could be enhanced, IMO.

The issue here, I think, is that the Bruce vocals come almost only from the two surrounds, leaking a minimum echo/reverb, to the rest of speakers. This sensation is lower for me in the 5.1 mix, with more relative amount of voice sound from the rest of speakers. Also, I hear some improvement if I decrease about 2dB the surrounds level in the Atmos mix.

In my room, with the surrounds at the sides (90º), I hear a good “inside my head” Bruce voice, but only in a very narrow sweet spot, just in the middle. Moving my head just a little to any side, and I hear the Bruce voice coming from that side due to a remarkable precedence effect.

I think that if the voice would have been “expanded” more to other all-around locations, the confined center voice in the narrow sweet spot would be less annoying, and a bigger bubble dome for the Bruce voice would be better. Even changing from time to time from floor level locations to the tops location to get a dome voice coming from above. (VOG ;))
I have the surrounds behind me and to the side walls. To me the vocals sounds like they are coming from the fronts. This is from Apple Music, there may be differences between them. I like this mix very much. :cool:
 

rusinurbe

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If I remember correctly and its been a long while this was the biggest complaint about Neil Youngs 'Harvest', vocals center of the surround field.

I quite like it but I know many people are stuck with very stereo way of thinking and singer should be false center even when you have a front center speaker.
 

mrcond

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There is of course no right answer to where vocals and instruments should be placed in a surround mix. But when I think about the best (for me) mixes I have heard, they generally follow this formula, and therefore these are my preferences:

Lead vocal: Front and center
Bass: Front and center
Drums: Spread across the front mainly, but good to have some accents (cymbal hits, tom hits, other percussion) in the sides or rears.
Guitars: Fronts, sides, or rears, all good.
Keyboards: Rears
Horns: Rears
Backing vocals: Rears
Synths: Here, there and everywhere, with movement (synths are when you can get especially crazy with the placement to great effect).
Sound effects, random voices, other percussion: Same as synths, anything is fair game.

These are not absolutes but this is what I like most. When the lead vocals are not anchored to the front, I generally don't like the effect. Even worse is when it is indistinct, like you really can't tell where it's coming from at all (unless that is the intended effect of the song, like Enya or something). Some vocal reverb in the rears is ok, but not the main voice.

YMMV
 

sjcorne

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In my room, with the surrounds at the sides (90º), I hear a good “inside my head” Bruce voice, but only in a very narrow sweet spot, just in the middle. Moving my head just a little to any side, and I hear the Bruce voice coming from that side due to a remarkable precedence effect.
To me, that's biggest downside of panning a mono element between the rear speakers or in all five channels at once - tilt your head just a bit and the entire soundstage collapses. Plus, if the layout of your listening room dictates that you sit closer to the rear speakers, the vocal may appear to come primarily from the back (this can be adjusted via balance controls). Vocals up front - either in the 'phantom center' or actual center speaker - seems to translate best to a wide variety of systems/layouts, in my experience at least.

To ascertain the lead vocal placement, I listened to the 5.1 mix on headphones with the front three channels panned to my left ear and the rear channels sent to my right ear. Bruce's lead vocal imaged directly inside my head, indicating that the mono vocal signal is distributed evenly between the front and rear stages. Perhaps this isn't the case on the Atmos mix?
 

rtbluray

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I'm still waiting on my copy to arrive but here's the poll for everyone who already has it so far:

:)
 

DoctorO

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Whereas the last live TPT BluRay offered two different mixes with different approaches to making use of the sound field in 5.1, here we are likely to have some friends and some foes. Being an old quad fanatic who can love illogical use of surround, I am really enjoying the approach to the Atmos mix on this disc. After a little time getting adjusted, I am liking the center of the room and elevated vocal, which I guess sort of better reflects the session set-up than up-front vocals.

Add to that, I feel the video approach is sublime and it is much easier to watch than the more frenetic prior live show. Also, while I was in the minority of folks here in my disappointment with Versions of the Truth, I enjoy the songs better in this context interspersed with some older material. Bruce gives his all in the vocal performance too, added a new level of viciousness to Build a World and Wretched Soul.
 

AYanguas

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.....
To ascertain the lead vocal placement, I listened to the 5.1 mix on headphones with the front three channels panned to my left ear and the rear channels sent to my right ear. Bruce's lead vocal imaged directly inside my head, indicating that the mono vocal signal is distributed evenly between the front and rear stages. Perhaps this isn't the case on the Atmos mix?
The difference I find in my system/room between the 5.1 and the Atmos mix, with respect to the “inside the head” Bruce voice is related to the amount of speakers to which his voice is spread across.

In the Atmos mix the effect inside-the-head is bigger than in the 5.1 but with a very narrow sweet spot. This is due that the voice come primarily only from the two side surrounds at 90º. There is indeed Bruce voice coming from the frontals, but the side surrounds take precedence because a higher level. Decreasing 2 dB the side surrounds level, reduces the effect and makes it more similar to the 5.1 mix.

When selecting the 5.1 mix (without upmixer), my 7.1.(4) system plays the DTS-HD MA, with the side surrounds duplicated to the rear surrounds. This is a known feature, at least in the Denon AVR, that tries to emulate a 5.1 system with the surrounds at a bigger angle than 90º when you have a 7.1 system. This way you have two more speakers to play the Bruce voice, 2 Front + 2 Side Surrounds + 2 Rear Surrounds. And the big precedence effect from the sides in the Atmos mix is reduced because now the voice is coming also from the rear surrounds.

So, I think that in order to expand the sweet spot for the voice inside-the-head in the Atmos mix, the voice should come also from the rears. But then, the compromise is that the big effect inside-the-head that is noticed only in the narrow sweet spot (without moving you head) would not be so high.

For the next Bruce Atmos mixes I hope he continue doing this and even more using the Tops locations. The full dome bubble for the voice is what I really like. And better changing dynamically, like implementing dialog, some verse from one location and some other verse from other location. Even if you see the Bruce face at the micro in the screen in front of you all the time. More experiences… If you don’t like, then change to stereo and everybody is happy.
 
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