The Virtues of Vinyl

[HomerJAU]

Part of the reason for the vinyl resurgence was the releasing of Dynamic Range compressed remastered CDs from the nineties onwards. Basically a generation of dud music. Vinyl releases have way better DR and now a generation of music fans can actually hear that ‘vinyl sounds better than CD’ (comparing to their recent CD versions. (Sorry off topic).

Maybe non-DR compressed 5.1/Quad downloads would appeal to a new generation too?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Part of the reason for the vinyl resurgence was the releasing of Dynamic Range compressed remastered CDs from the nineties onwards. Basically a generation of dud music. Vinyl releases have way better DR and now a generation of music fans can actually hear that ‘vinyl sounds better than CD’ (comparing to their recent CD versions. (Sorry off topic).

Maybe non-DR compressed 5.1/Quad downloads would appeal to a new generation too?

Yes and No. NOT all Vinyl today is MoFi, AP or Quiex vinyl. There have been numerous complaints on various websites that Vinyl from the Majors is substandard with the same poor pressings which veered a lot of us away from it in the first place to embrace CD.

Yes, a LOT of pop/rock RBCDs are compressed but thankfully, the Jazz, Classical and World music doesn't suffer the same fate.

If ALL vinyl was 180~200g and pressed with care on lathes that aren't 40 or 50 years old, the picture would certainly be different. And Vinyl is still STEREO centric......so I won't be getting rid of my digital components any time too soon.

 

[bmoura]

Vinyl releases have way better DR

Digital formats have quite a bit more Dynamic Range than Vinyl releases.
By quite a margin.

 

[bluelightning]

Digital formats have quite a bit more Dynamic Range than Vinyl releases.
By quite a margin.

I think he was mostly referring to the mastering for vinyl versus digital media, perhaps due to the different audiences being catered to. Of course, digital formats are far better(technical terms) in every way.

 

[bmoura]

I think he was mostly referring to the mastering for vinyl versus digital media, perhaps due to the different audiences being catered to. Of course, digital formats are far better(technical terms) in every way.

Even in mastering, the LP and 45 formats have serious limitations. Especially when it comes to dynamic range.

A vivid example of that occurred at one of the audio shows a couple of years ago when an LP was compared to the Analog Master Tape of the same album, from the same mastering engineer.
Attendees were shocked at how much better the Analog Master Tape sounded than the LP. There is LP and then there is Analog Tape and Digital formats.

 

[bluelightning]

Sure, I agree with you that it is a severely (in my opinion) limited format, but many of these consumer releases are severely compressed to the point where it is irrelevant. In either case, it is best the author clarify his position. Last thing I want to do is argue about the virtues of vinyl

 

[bluelightning]

For that matter, analog master tapes are also limited in my opinion compared to going straight to digital. But that is for another day.

 

[bmoura]

True. But an Analog Master Tape - or an Analog to DSD transfer of an Analog Master Tape - comes much closer to the original than an LP.
That explains why audio demos rarely play the same track on LP and Analog Tape (or DSD). The differences do jump out at you when that happens....

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I'll save everybody some grief...I've been down this road before with Brian...he is "technically" right but in the real world...consumers like us don't have master tapes and modern mastering of CDs negates the advantages inherent in the digital realm...which Homer was talking about...I think a lot of the resurgence of vinyl is that a new demographic is buying it...the millennials....because it's new to them and considered "hip" now...just like it was in our day some will always be attracted to counterculture items....which vinyl is compared to streaming and downloads....

 

[bmoura]

Consumers like us don't have master tapes and modern mastering of CDs negates the advantages inherent in the digital realm.

As it turns out, consumers do have access to copies of Analog Master Tapes these days from sources like Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc and The Tape Project.
They sound very, very good. Much better than LPs and 45s.

And then we have music downloads in 24/96 FLAC and DSD.
Again, much better sounding than LPs and 45s.

A great time to be a music fan.

 

[jimfisheye]

Part of the reason for the vinyl resurgence was the releasing of Dynamic Range compressed remastered CDs from the nineties onwards. Basically a generation of dud music. Vinyl releases have way better DR and now a generation of music fans can actually hear that ‘vinyl sounds better than CD’ (comparing to their recent CD versions. (Sorry off topic).

Maybe non-DR compressed 5.1/Quad downloads would appeal to a new generation too?

And the actual original 24 bit masters that were volume war hyped, reduced to SD, and then 16 bit for those CD editions have even better dynamic range (being the actual masters) and are free of the noise, distortion and generation loss of the vinyl pressing.

If someone wants to come along and sell vinyl as an upgrade and prop that up by refusing to sell the actual 24 bit HD master... well, they know where they can shove that! Sideways!

I really think the "vinyl resurgence" was more nostalgia for someone's parents malfunctioning turntable and the weird sound it had. The kids aren't looking for improved quality here. They want to hear their mp3s with damaged vinyl sounds on top of them for a novelty.

As it turns out, consumers do have access to copies of Analog Master Tapes these days from sources like Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc and The Tape Project.
They sound very, very good. Much better than LPs and 45s.

And then we have music downloads in 24/96 FLAC and DSD.
Again, much better sounding than LPs and 45s.

A great time to be a music fan.

I fully agree! This is the golden age of audio right now to me.
We have pristine 24 bit copies of even a lot of rare surround mixes at this point that I never thought would ever hear the light of day (just go with that) that originally had just appalling sound on the original releases.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

As it turns out, consumers do have access to copies of Analog Master Tapes these days from sources like Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc and The Tape Project.
They sound very, very good. Much better than LPs and 45s.

And then we have music downloads in 24/96 FLAC and DSD.
Again, much better sounding than LPs and 45s.

A great time to be a music fan.

LOL...Chad would sell his soul if he could get someone to buy it...I remember Acoustic Sounds selling the empty box for Texas Hurricane for $100...since I had purchased that set myself...I'm qualified to comment on it's quality...which was nothing special...unless you have a fetish for cardboard....I noticed you had to include downloads in your post...it seems to be your mission in life to support them...and there is nothing wrong with that...but Homer isn't comparing them to LPs...and as far as having access to copies of master tapes...I'd like to get Sgt. Peppers and all the Beatle catalog...how much would that cost me and where do I order them?...but again...Homer wasn't talking about tapes...just CDs from a specific time frame and vinyl..nothing else..

Come to think of it...who needs Sgt. Peppers...when I can get THIS....All kidding aside Brian...I do like your support of these various ways of getting music...maybe in the future I can indulge in some of these...probably not tapes...but other things...it's good for us to know what is out there

 

[ar surround]

Yes and No. NOT all Vinyl today is MoFi, AP or Quiex vinyl. There have been numerous complaints on various websites that Vinyl from the Majors is substandard with the same poor pressings which veered a lot of us away from it in the first place to embrace CD...

The majors have been producing lousy vinyl LP pressings for 70 years, so why stop now? My favorite was Days of Future Past, which was pressed off center. No doubt an elementary training tool on how to identify wow and flutter.

You really have to think long and hard about Ralph's statement. If the high quality audiophile titles from MoFi/AP come out on LP and CD/SACD, but you get lousy pressings from the majors for other titles, then why put up with the inconvenience/ritual of playing vinyl only to be subjected to aural abuse? If it sounds bad because of a poor pressing, then why not just get the more convenient DR compressed, lousy-sounding CD or download?

Regarding the limitations of vinyl, back in the day I had a first generaiton dbx 3bx dynamic range expander. It was an expensive piece of equipment that worked wonders on LP's when used judiciously.

...I think a lot of the resurgence of vinyl is that a new demographic is buying it...the millennials....because it's new to them and considered "hip" now...just like it was in our day some will always be attracted to counterculture items....which vinyl is compared to streaming and downloads....

Millennials will become hip when one-hundred thousand of them wallow in mud and shit for three days in some field in upstate NY...Woodstock 2019!!!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Part of the reason for the vinyl resurgence was the releasing of Dynamic Range compressed remastered CDs from the nineties onwards. Basically a generation of dud music. Vinyl releases have way better DR and now a generation of music fans can actually hear that ‘vinyl sounds better than CD’ (comparing to their recent CD versions. (Sorry off topic).

Maybe non-DR compressed 5.1/Quad downloads would appeal to a new generation too?

As you say, that may be part of the reason, but a small part IMO. My kid buys vinyl. His friends buy vinyl. Not a one of them has anything close to a system capable of wide dynamic range. Even if they did, I doubt they would care. They buy vinyl because they think its cooler and because its a current fad. They also like the artwork.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Millennials will become hip when one-hundred thousand of them wallow in mud and shit for three days in some field in upstate NY...Woodstock 2019!!!

 

[Franklin]

It's not a given that a highly compressed album on CD will sound better on vinyl. Sometimes it sounds even worse, with the EQ not sounding as good. Plenty of bad sounding vinyl counterparts to bad sounding CDs. I find it's a case by case thing, and I'm often surprised at which I prefer. As for the kids liking vinyl, I don't think it's about hearing mp3s with added crackle. There's something attractive and quantifiable about vinyl to some. It's also more fun to DJ with (even ignoring the deckrobatic side of things).

 

[jimfisheye]

It's not a given that a highly compressed album on CD will sound better on vinyl. Sometimes it sounds even worse...

Yeah, like when they take the very same production master that was prepared for the CD edition (limited and boosted and high end eq hyped volume war fare and also reduced to 44.1k and 16 bit) and use that for the vinyl! So not only do you have the volume war hype damage but now you add an analog generation with vinyl noise and distortion. Or at best it sounds EXACTLY like the CD. Got burned by a couple of those. (Can you tell? )

I like the videos of "DJ's" where someone will zoom in on the back of their mixer and the power cord isn't plugged in. There's the dude "working" those controls...
Nowadays "DJ'ing" = hit play on your iTunes playlist and mime "DJ'ing".

 

[Franklin]

I like the videos of "DJ's" where someone will zoom in on the back of their mixer and the power cord isn't plugged in. There's the dude "working" those controls...
Nowadays "DJ'ing" = hit play on your iTunes playlist and mime "DJ'ing".

Yeah, that wouldn't be my thing. I currently am involved with an event where a bunch of people play a bunch of records in a bar and maybe even getting a half decent segue between two tracks. Age range from probably late teens to mid 40s.

 

[fredblue]

even though i never 'went off' vinyl as such and still had all my LPs & 45s from my "yoof", getting back into the swing of buying records again a few years back was one of the best things i've ever done.

most of all, i have vinyl to thank for really giving my surround music hobby an incredible new lease on life by getting to hear loads of old Quads (some of which nobody had ever got round to converting before, or at least putting them out there) and in the process discovered literally hundreds of 'new' (to me) Quads on the SQ & QS systems thanks in no small part to the Surround Master and latterly to a lesser extent on CD-4.. I say lesser because compared to the ease of use of the matrix systems, the CD-4 system drove me up the wall so much that by the time i'd sussed it, i was pretty much over it!

a wonderful voyage of surround music discovery made possible by lovely old records, many of which were made before I was born. ahh... happy days!

 

[GOS]

Not to go down a rabbit hole....but I have to wonder about all the 24/96 downloads. Are we for sure getting the best possible version of any particular release? I didn't think so....I've downloaded many and found most to sound pretty good, yet others to sound very thin and the DR is crap. So, how do I know that if I went out and purchased an LP version of that same title......that it wouldn't sound better?