Thinking about adding Atmos Height speakers

[key_wiz]

couple of basic questions:

First of all, am I wasting my time only adding 2 instead of 4? (I have a 5.1 system now) And if I do only add two, should they be towards the front or the back or do I try more for the center of the room?

 

[marpow]

I am going to do 5.2.4, I have committed to that. My ceiling speakers will be in ceiling. I am going to use the Dolby Atmos map for 4 ceilings which looks to be about 1-2 feet behind my head and 3-4 feet in front of my head.

 

[humprof]

couple of basic questions:

First of all, am I wasting my time only adding 2 instead of 4? (I have a 5.1 system now) And if I do only add two, should they be towards the front or the back or do I try more for the center of the room?

I faced that same dilemma when I decided to make the leap: my current AVR only does 5.1.2, and I can't justify shelling out for a new one just now. But I went ahead and installed four in-ceiling speakers, anyway, following Dolby's recommendations on placement, more or less--and connected the front overheads for now. I'm happy with how they sound: they add "lift" like an Atmos mix is supposed to, and when there's something discretely placed overhead, I can almost always tell where it's coming from, even though my room is such that my main fronts sometimes reflect off the ceiling too. Looking forward to having all four hooked up eventually, though.

 

[key_wiz]

I faced that same dilemma when I decided to make the leap: my current AVR only does 5.1.2, and I can't justify shelling out for a new one just now. But I went ahead and installed four in-ceiling speakers, anyway, following Dolby's recommendations on placement, more or less--and connected the front overheads for now. I'm happy with how they sound: they add "lift" like an Atmos mix is supposed to, and when there's something discretely placed overhead, I can almost always tell where it's coming from, even though my room is such that my main fronts sometimes reflect off the ceiling too. Looking forward to having all four hooked up eventually, though.

I have some reflection issues in my room as well, as right now I'm doing this all through my living room home theater system. Someday I'd like to convert a spare room to a dedicated listening room, but at the rate I get around to doing things, that'll probably be a couple of years off at least.

So in the meantime, I have to content with 10' ceilings and one wall that is pretty much solid glass behind the couch. While I'm happy with the sound in the room for the most part, I do question how well I'd even notice I had these speakers.

But like you, the more I think about how to set it up, the more I'm thinking installing them in the ceiling is the way to go. And I guess if I'm going to go for two, I may as well stick four of them up there. But I also would have to get a new AVR to go 5.1.4

 

[Daniel John]

I have a 5.1.2 AVR setup with Atmos up firing speakers (PSB) placed on top of my main front floor standing speakers. This is probably not the most optimal setup and to be honest I don't really feel that it adds much to the audio mix for Atmos enabled movies and even music. The best way to go if you want decent Dolby Atmos is inceiling speakers at front and back of room.

 

[key_wiz]

I have a 5.1.2 AVR setup with Atmos up firing speakers (PSB) placed on top of my main front floor standing speakers. This is probably not the most optimal setup and to be honest I don't really feel that it adds much to the audio mix for Atmos enabled movies and even music. The best way to go if you want decent Dolby Atmos is inceiling speakers at front and back of room.

View attachment 52398

Nice set up though!

I thought about upfires, but my speakers are too thin to put any decent set upon without it looking weird and maybe even being unstable. So then I'd be setting them on the shelf next to the fronts. And then I'm thinking with a 10' ceiling I'm not likely to get much reflection anyway.

So yeah. Cut some holes in the ceiling seems the way to go. Next time the wife is out of town for a couple of days maybe.

 

[Audiowannabee]

I have a 5.1.2 AVR setup with Atmos up firing speakers (PSB) placed on top of my main front floor standing speakers. This is probably not the most optimal setup and to be honest I don't really feel that it adds much to the audio mix for Atmos enabled movies and even music. The best way to go if you want decent Dolby Atmos is inceiling speakers at front and back of room.

View attachment 52398

Just a thought...hang 2 shelves n move m up maybe...

Im nowhere near atmos...5.1 n not deep enuf pockets ...year or 2 away probably

 

[humprof]

I have some reflection issues in my room as well, as right now I'm doing this all through my living room home theater system. Someday I'd like to convert a spare room to a dedicated listening room, but at the rate I get around to doing things, that'll probably be a couple of years off at least.

So in the meantime, I have to content with 10' ceilings and one wall that is pretty much solid glass behind the couch. While I'm happy with the sound in the room for the most part, I do question how well I'd even notice I had these speakers.

But like you, the more I think about how to set it up, the more I'm thinking installing them in the ceiling is the way to go. And I guess if I'm going to go for two, I may as well stick four of them up there. But I also would have to get a new AVR to go 5.1.4

FWIW: the acoustics ought to be weird in my living room but are strangely okay. 14' x 17' room with 8-foot ceilings and lots of windows (and wood floors), but also overstuffed furniture, area rugs, curtains, and a brick fireplace (and painted mottled drywall). Because of the configuration of the room, the main and surround speakers, all in-wall, have to be about 5 feet off the floor, and they're confined to an 8- x 17' section of the room away from the windows. Somehow it works, although because they're mounted so high, the sweet spot is standing just behind the couch rather than sitting on it (!).

Anyway, the overheads are also relatively low, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. I was going to go with some slightly pricey Episodes, but as I was hemming and hawing over whether I could swing four of them, my installer convinced me to go with a much cheaper model--$160 a pair--which he said the company hawks as "contractor-grade" but which sound just as good. I like them a lot. (Episode ES-350T-IC-8.)

 

[key_wiz]

FWIW: the acoustics ought to be weird in my living room but are strangely okay. 14' x 17' room with 8-foot ceilings and lots of windows (and wood floors), but also overstuffed furniture, area rugs, curtains, and a brick fireplace (and painted mottled drywall). Because of the configuration of the room, the main and surround speakers, all in-wall, have to be about 6 feet off the floor, and they're confined to an 8- x 17' section of the room away from the windows. Somehow it works, although because they're mounted so high, the sweet spot is standing just behind the couch rather than sitting on it (!).

Anyway, the overheads are also relatively low, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. I was going to go with some slightly pricey Episodes, but as I was hemming and hawing over whether I could swing four of them, my installer convinced me to go with a much cheaper model--$160 a pair--which he said the company hawks as "contractor-grade" but which sound just as good. I like them a lot. (Episode ES-350T-IC-8.)

Yeah, I've got a room about the same size, with the back wall mostly all windows, wood floors, painted drywall and one side completely open. For the most part it's OK, but sometimes there are reflection issues where I think the back speakers are on even when they are not. A dedicated listening room that I can treat the walls and such will be the ultimate answer, but that's a good ways down the road.

I'll take at look at those Episodes, though. Great price, for sure!

 

[salsdali]

I thought about upfires, but my speakers are too thin to put any decent set upon without it looking weird and maybe even being unstable. So then I'd be setting them on the shelf next to the fronts. And then I'm thinking with a 10' ceiling I'm not likely to get much reflection anyway.

The bottom of the upfiring speakers have cut-out holes to allow for wall hanging. You hang them high up on the wall towards the ceiling and the speakers are actually angled down (within the speakers cabinet) to aim the sound directly at you. This is 90% as good as hanging them in the ceiling because it eliminates the need for them to reflect at an angle off of the ceiling towards you.

examples:

 

[key_wiz]

The bottom of the upfiring speakers have cut-out holes to allow for wall hanging. You hang them high up on the wall towards the ceiling and the speakers are actually angled down (within the speakers cabinet) to aim the sound directly at you. This is 90% as good as hanging them in the ceiling because it eliminates the need for them to reflect at an angle off of the ceiling towards you.

I've considered hanging a pair along the top of the back wall between the two rear speakers (which are both satellites). I could get away with that and make the wiring unobtrusive and since it is behind us I don't think the wife would care. A pair up on the wall in the front isn't as doable for aesthetic reasons. And anything on the sides isn't an option as one side has no wall. But then is this TOO far back? And I'd only be doing 5.1.2 at this point. So ceiling mounts are probably better?

 

[bktouchstone]

Have been thinking about this as a winter project. I will probably put 4 speakers in the ceiling and wire them to a terminal near where my system is set up along the wall. Then I will need a new AVR as mine only supports 5.2.2. Issues: running the speaker wire from the terminal up the wall (will have to go outside the wall at some point) and then run it through the ceiling (my stuff is in the basement) to get it to the speakers. Either through trim or crown molding, hide the places where the wires penetrate the walls to go from the wall to the ceiling. Paint the molding/trim. Maybe run some cool LEDs (hidden by the new trim or moulding) to light the room different colors. All in probably around $6-$7k plus my time. And that's when I ask myself "do I really want to do this?" Can anyone say if the ceiling speakers make a huge difference? Is the sound really more 3-D? Does it seem like, for example, a bullet is flying through the space in the room? I have up firing speakers now for a faux atmos effect and occasionally I can sense something overhead. Not sure it's worth the trouble and that isn't a criticism just haven't heard it yet. But I do get bored in the winter....

 

[HomerJAU]

I went with 4 in-ceilings, in front and behind listening position after reading AVSForum. This gives way better positioning of objects in 3D space (and fills the room with sound!)

 

[humprof]

Have been thinking about this as a winter project. I will probably put 4 speakers in the ceiling and wire them to a terminal near where my system is set up along the wall. Then I will need a new AVR as mine only supports 5.2.2. Issues: running the speaker wire from the terminal up the wall (will have to go outside the wall at some point) and then run it through the ceiling (my stuff is in the basement) to get it to the speakers. Either through trim or crown molding, hide the places where the wires penetrate the walls to go from the wall to the ceiling. Paint the molding/trim. Maybe run some cool LEDs (hidden by the new trim or moulding) to light the room different colors. All in probably around $6-$7k plus my time. And that's when I ask myself "do I really want to do this?" Can anyone say if the ceiling speakers make a huge difference? Is the sound really more 3-D? Does it seem like, for example, a bullet is flying through the space in the room? I have up firing speakers now for a faux atmos effect and occasionally I can sense something overhead. Not sure it's worth the trouble and that isn't a criticism just haven't heard it yet. But I do get bored in the winter....

Only you can decide whether it's worth that kind of scratch. But like @HomerJAU, I got a pretty consistent message from everything I read that if you can do overheads, then do overheads.

 

[ProgRules]

I haven't dove into Atmos yet- and probably won't until I get a better room. But for all you talking about new AVR's to go from 5.x.2 to 5.x.4: can't you just add a stereo amp to get the 2 extra height speakers? I thought 7 channel Atmos AVR's included pre-outs for the other 2?

 

[humprof]

I haven't dove into Atmos yet- and probably won't until I get a better room. But for all you talking about new AVR's to go from 5.x.2 to 5.x.4: can't you just add a stereo amp to get the 2 extra height speakers? I thought 7 channel Atmos AVR's included pre-outs for the other 2?

Hmmm...

 

[key_wiz]

I haven't dove into Atmos yet- and probably won't until I get a better room. But for all you talking about new AVR's to go from 5.x.2 to 5.x.4: can't you just add a stereo amp to get the 2 extra height speakers? I thought 7 channel Atmos AVR's included pre-outs for the other 2?

It's possible some are set up like that. I don't think most are. Mine certainly is not. I've got a 7 channel Yamaha AVR that allows me to configure it either as 7.1 or 5.1.2. To do 5.1.4 I need to upgrade to a 9 channel amp.

 

[ProgRules]

It's possible some are set up like that. I don't think most are. Mine certainly is not. I've got a 7 channel Yamaha AVR that allows me to configure it either as 7.1 or 5.1.2. To do 5.1.4 I need to upgrade to a 9 channel amp.

I know some are; I've seen them in my browsing. Don't know about most; I just assumed they would be, otherwise the component is rather compromised. And I'd think it wouldn't add that much to the cost. But many's the times I've been mistaken- and many times confused...

 

[key_wiz]

I know some are; I've seen them in my browsing. Don't know about most; I just assumed they would be, otherwise the component is rather compromised. And I'd think it wouldn't add that much to the cost. But many's the times I've been mistaken- and many times confused...

Seems odd to me that they'd include outputs requiring you to use another amp. But I suppose perhaps as Atmos is becoming more of a think they offer this as an upgrade option so they can keep the cost of the initial AVR down?

In any case, mine is not so equipped so I'm either up and onward to a newer, bigger AVR or sticking with 5.1.2

 

[humprof]

I know some are; I've seen them in my browsing. Don't know about most; I just assumed they would be, otherwise the component is rather compromised. And I'd think it wouldn't add that much to the cost. But many's the times I've been mistaken- and many times confused...

Yeah...my Marantz NR1607 has 2 assignable "pre-out" channels in addition to the standard 7.1 (or 5.1.2)--but it seems they're for "Zone 2" (stereo) playback only. I don't think there's any way to combine Zones 1 and 2 in order to get 5.1.4 playback.