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Tidal Adds Dolby Atmos Music

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humprof

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I'm also wondering if / when we'll get to hear some of these Sony 360 stuff (besides on headphones and the Echo studio).
Are these from the quad source ?
I guess Sony thinks quad or 5.1 aren't enough to get people excited, so they had to convert them to 360.

View attachment 55334
I wonder if Sony 360 is dead in the water. (And wasn't it meant to be a headphone-only "virtual" surround sort of thing?)
 

EricKalet

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I wonder if Sony 360 is dead in the water. (And wasn't it meant to be a headphone-only "virtual" surround sort of thing?)
Definitely meant to be headphone only. The sad thing is that Sony has had some incredible technology for surround sound. Could be so much more...i.e...but the implementation of it via hardware has always been...poor.

SACD/DSD which as you know was a major format warrior vs. MLP/DVD-A...many players convert DSD to PCM...DoP, etc...

And...it was said back 20 years ago that SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound) was the best sounding for movies over dts and Dolby, but SDDS never really took hold like Dolby and dts did in theaters and was never considered for home theater/consumer consumption. The location of the soundtrack was on the worst part of the film, where it could be easily damaged through normal playback.
 

bracelis

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humprof

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John Williams in Vienna album now available:

and another one from Deutsche Grammophon:
John Adams: "Must the Devil Have All the Good Tunes?"
That's potentially exciting. There's also a "visual album" (I assume it's a recording of the concert performance) of the John Adams.
 

bracelis

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That's potentially exciting. There's also a "visual album" (I assume it's a recording of the concert performance) of the John Adams.
The John Williams in Vienna - "Visual Album" video track listings don't work for me (not sure if it's region-locked):

But these individual video links work -- these are the same videos available in DG's YouTube channel.

The John Adams "Visual Album" works (3 videos):
 

IronWaffle

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John Williams in Vienna album now available:

and another one from Deutsche Grammophon:
John Adams: "Must the Devil Have All the Good Tunes?"
Thanks for posting this. I had the Blu-ray on pre-order. I’d hoped to listen to it last week but they bumped back the release date until October so this is an unexpected treat. I think The Imperial March is really well done and folks should watch the YouTube video above because the exuberance is more palpable with the visual (at least for me). Some of the other more familiar pieces seem slightly uneven tempo-wise but that really could be my over-familiarity.

This was a good listen but I think I learned from it that the ATMOS mix isn’t necessarily worth the premium for the disc. Sacrilege, I know, but the one track I bought as a 320 mp3 a few months ago sounds surprisingly good upmixed. Then again, when adding the video content, it may be worth it for a more thoroughly immersive experience. I have a few weeks to decide. For those who are interested in it, Bull Moose had it cheapest ($27.99).
 
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humprof

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This was a good listen but I think I learned from it that the ATMOS mix isn’t necessarily worth the premium for the disc.
I'd say the same thing about the John Adams program. (And I'm not sure whether that one is even scheduled for a Blu-Ray release.) I'm more interested in Adams than Williams, but if we're just talking about hall ambiance--and not terribly "big" ambiance, at that--then I don't think that makes for much of a showcase for Atmos. But that gets us back to a longstanding argument about what most classical listeners are looking for in a surround recording...
 
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IronWaffle

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I'd say the same thing about the John Adams program. (And I'm not sure whether that one is even scheduled for a Blu-Ray release.) I'm more interested in Adams than Williams, but if we're just talking about hall ambiance--and not terribly "big" ambiance, at that--then I don't think that makes for much of a showcase for Atmost. But that gets us back to a longstanding argument about what most classical listeners are looking for in a surround recording...
Good points. I’m happy with Grammophon’s Bernstein/Beethoven 5.1 set and my few other 5.1, 4.0 and 3.0 classical titles. I find the ambience does add to my experience.

I suppose I was just surprised at how little was coming from the rears in my 7.1.2 system (I can’t do 5.1.4 currently). As it is, though, I have a secondary listening seat behind the sweet spot where I can usually hear the activity; in this case I had to put my ear against those speakers to check. Now, my system is far from optimal but that felt telling.

Still, I haven’t canceled my preorder yet. I have a few weeks left on my TIDAL trial and until the end of September to cancel the pre-order. I always appreciate “growers” and am conscious of how expectations can get in the way of enjoyment.
 

harync

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I'd say the same thing about the John Adams program. (And I'm not sure whether that one is even scheduled for a Blu-Ray release.) I'm more interested in Adams than Williams, but if we're just talking about hall ambiance--and not terribly "big" ambiance, at that--then I don't think that makes for much of a showcase for Atmos. But that gets us back to a longstanding argument about what most classical listeners are looking for in a surround recording...
I agree with all points from humprof and iron waffle. If you like Williams, it's great to see his enthusiasm in the Imperial March video. I read a story that the Imperial March was not originally part of the program. The Vienna Symphony wanted to play it and made a request of Williams. He was so impressed with their version he made it the show's close.

I heard a bit of activity in the surrounds and overall the dynamic range sounded good to me (unlike some of the Tidal Atmos mixes with no bass or excessive bass). I was on the fence about buying the blu-ray, and this gently pushed me into the do not buy side. But kudos to Tidal for letting me try before I buy, and if I keep my Tidal subscription I can access when I want.

As mentioned above, the long-standing 5.1 argument from the classical arena has merely been moved to the Atmos stage. I personally would rather "sit" in the middle of the orchestra and don't personally care if it faithfully reproduces the best seat in the house, reverberations and all. That may come from years of being in a symphony while in school.
 

northernsoul

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I'd say the same thing about the John Adams program. (And I'm not sure whether that one is even scheduled for a Blu-Ray release.) I'm more interested in Adams than Williams, but if we're just talking about hall ambiance--and not terribly "big" ambiance, at that--then I don't think that makes for much of a showcase for Atmos. But that gets us back to a longstanding argument about what most classical listeners are looking for in a surround recording...
Are classical listeners looking for surround? Or is it that surround fans are looking for ATMOS and there just happens to be classical releases?

Those who do not like instruments in rears can choose stereo. Why mix in Atmos with only 2 speakers used for instruments? Wasted opportunity.
 

himey

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Are classical listeners looking for surround? Or is it that surround fans are looking for ATMOS and there just happens to be classical releases?

Those who do not like instruments in rears can choose stereo. Why mix in Atmos with only 2 speakers used for instruments? Wasted opportunity.
@Kal Rubinson would probably have an interesting opinion on this?
 

AYanguas

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Are classical listeners looking for surround? Or is it that surround fans are looking for ATMOS and there just happens to be classical releases?

Those who do not like instruments in rears can choose stereo. Why mix in Atmos with only 2 speakers used for instruments? Wasted opportunity.
Yes, it is my case.

I was only a prog-rock fan, but after building my new Home Cinema Atmos/Auro-3D, and looking for Dolby Atmos music I have also started to like some electronic music and some Classical Concerts Music.
 

bracelis

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This is probably how the conversation went between John Williams and the recording engineer while discussing this album:

J. Williams: I would like the listeners at home to experience what it's like to be there in the audience in the theater.

Engineer: You mean like fake surround ?

J. Williams: What do you mean by fake ?

Engineer: I mean ambient, versus discrete.

J. Williams: You must be confused -- ambient is more real, discrete is fake (we're talking about live orchestra).

Engineer: But these guys have their 12.4.8 speaker setup, why waste all those speakers ?

J. Williams: We want to use all those speakers to recreate the sound in the theater,
which is better than using two speakers and applying fake digital signal processing / reverb.

Engineer: But where's the fun in that ? They want to get their money's worth, with sounds coming from all over the place.

J. Williams: Then they can watch Star Wars (not sure why I thought about Star Wars, but that's one of the top movies that came to mind).

Engineer: But we're talking about music, not movies.

J. Williams: So they can go ahead and play some Kraftwerk 3D.

Engineer: But you know that there are classical albums with discrete sound, there's even the TACET albums with the "Real Moving Surround Sound".

J. Williams: Look, TACET can do whatever they want with classical music -- the composers are all dead so no one is stopping them.
But these are my own compositions and I'm still alive -- so I get to decide what the listeners get to experience.
 
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EricKalet

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This is probably how the conversation went between John Williams and the recording engineer while discussing this album:

J. Williams: I would like the listeners at home to experience what it's like to be there in the audience in the theater.

Engineer: You mean like fake surround ?

J. Williams: What do you mean by fake ?

Engineer: I mean ambient, versus discrete.

J. Williams: You must be confused -- ambient is more real, discrete is fake (we're talking about live orchestra).
@edisonbaggins 😂 the engineer said "fake surround" 😂
 

bracelis

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harync

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This is probably how the conversation went between John Williams and the recording engineer while discussing this album:
J. Williams: I would like the listeners at home to experience what it's like to be there in the audience in the theater...
Well done. I'm sure a similar conversation was held at some point, perhaps even when the concert venue was being mic'd.

One of my favorite classical recordings was mic'd both in the middle of the orchestra and in the audience. https://www.aixrecords.com/product/stravinsky-firebird-suite-1919-ravel-bolero-cristian-mandeal-conductor-george-enescu-phil-orch/ The middle of the orchestra recording is the DTS track and the audience recording is MLP/DD.

It would be great if this approach could be embraced. If a classical album has both a 5.1 mix and an Atmos mix, maybe one could be the middle of the orchestra and the other could be audience?
 
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