TOMMY-THE WHO SOUNDTRACK-QS

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fizzywiggs41

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Hi fizzywiggs

I'm not saying you are wrong, but do you have a source for this?

LISZTOMANIA (1975) is generally credited with being the first film in Dolby Stereo (3 channels, R - C - L), followed by A Star Is Born (1976) (4 channels R - C- L & rear surround):

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-film-released-in-dolby-stereo

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=HjmNAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=LISZTOMANIA+dolby&source=bl&ots=QQEzlNxtj_&sig=U5evqf56pwAh5Dh7uBJVscndWpg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwA2oVChMIwr2tisrFxwIVBASOCh35OQO2#v=onepage&q=LISZTOMANIA dolby&f=false

Star Wars is credited as the first film to use 6 track Dolby Stereo: http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/2000/62/dolby/
I have some notes on Mosely's Kintek sound system, but alas not all.I do remember reading in one of his (and there are many) Quinta phonic
publications, where he credits TOMMY and LIZSTOMANIA.The singular one I have credits his initial work with TOMMY.

I took the liberty to google "Kintek", "Quintaphonic","Mosely", Colourtek", and there are a number of pdf files available in relation to early Matrix encoding.Perhaps one of these can identify all of Sansui's QS encode usage in 75-76.

That being said anyone with back copies of Jay Frank's "4 Quad" monthly reports on quad releases/developments and also copies of Larry Clifton's "Quad Quarterly/Quadlings/MCS Review did indeed cover early use of Sansui QS encode for a small number of film soundtracks.
Although I do not have proof of one other source (namely Dolby Labs), I seem to remember Dolby's Roger Dressler indicate that QS was used but only very briefly by them prior to the use of SQ and of course the latter MP matrix.I had communicated with him via telephone at least a couple of times specifically regarding their encoding history.
 
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TOMMY deadwax imprint---American Copy.

I must have sold my Canadian copy ,as I can't find it.

@fredblue

View attachment 74047View attachment 74048View attachment 74049
Thanks Fizzy, think you could write the whole dead wax out for us, kinda hard to see.

I was fortunate to find a first pressing of “Experience Gloria Gaynor” which is QS encoded; great album also, don’t think of it as disco (not that I’d mind that either) but it’s more a funky-soul album.
 

par4ken

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Sansui, not unlike the other quad proponents, announced through their trade/promo newsletter discs that were recently mixed, recently encoded, mixed and about to be demodulated,and discs that were scheduled to be released by the supporting labels.

That's why we have discs announced but never released by Columbia (LOU RAWLS, JEFF BECK/JAN HAMMER) and WEA (JIMI HENDRIX, TODD RUNDGREN, FOGHAT) and ABC/COMMAND (THREE DOG NIGHT'S DOG STYLE and JOY TO THE WORLD), and of course many others in this category.


By approximately late 76 and 77 the competing labels were re-evaluating the upcoming releases and some (WEA especially) started to destroy and dump quad and started to declare quad a failed consumer product.
Dog Style was released, just under a different tile (Coming Down Your Way). Here is a link to the stereo test pressing.
 

fredblue

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Our friend OD somehow got a copy of the QS mix and "released a decode of it" on his blog. Yes it was never officially released.
i have my doubts about that one.. not only did he make genuine mistakes, as we all do and identify things as Quad when they weren't (his release of Weather Report's "Tale Spinnin'" for example was not the Quad mix, whatever source he used just happened to pan out nicely enough when SQ decoded) most of the ABC Quads are said to be missing from the archives, so the chances of an unreleased ABC Quad being attainable feel extremely slim but never say never!
 

par4ken

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i have my doubts about that one.. not only did he make genuine mistakes, as we all do and identify things as Quad when they weren't (his release of Weather Report's "Tale Spinnin'" for example was not the Quad mix, whatever source he used just happened to pan out nicely enough when SQ decoded) most of the ABC Quads are said to be missing from the archives, so the chances of an unreleased ABC Quad being attainable feel extremely slim but never say never!
Have you listened to it? I believe it to be genuine. OD would of had contacts that wished to remain nameless but generous enough to share (he stated that fact). A similar situation with the Michael Robin reels. They were genuine as well! I only recall one or two mistakes from OD. He would quickly withdraw a release when found not to actual quad and that didn't happen often. However I don't think that he ever acknowledged that The Beach Boys stuff that was supposed to be Dyna, was actually something different (there is a post here someplace about that).

OD could be very obnoxious at times but was not a liar. While an upmix could of been made from a stereo copy of "So What" there is absolutely no reason that OD would do that! I just wished that he would of "released" the QS as well as his own decode. He actually released two versions the second using an updated script.

OD was the first to point out that "Lucifer's Friend" was not SQ even though clearly labeled as such. That started a shouting match that eventually got OD banned. I had always just assumed that it was mixed using an SQ encoder but mixed to sound best in stereo, I never would thought that a legit record company would have the audacity to do something like that!
 

fredblue

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Have you listened to it? I believe it to be genuine. OD would of had contacts that wished to remain nameless but generous enough to share (he stated that fact). A similar situation with the Michael Robin reels. They were genuine as well! I only recall one or two mistakes from OD. He would quickly withdraw a release when found not to actual quad and that didn't happen often. However I don't think that he ever acknowledged that The Beach Boys stuff that was supposed to be Dyna, was actually something different (there is a post here someplace about that).

OD could be very obnoxious at times but was not a liar. While an upmix could of been made from a stereo copy of "So What" there is absolutely no reason that OD would do that! I just wished that he would of "released" the QS as well as his own decode. He actually released two versions the second using an updated script.

OD was the first to point out that "Lucifer's Friend" was not SQ even though clearly labeled as such. That started a shouting match that eventually got OD banned. I had always just assumed that it was mixed using an SQ encoder but mixed to sound best in stereo, I never would thought that a legit record company would have the audacity to do something like that!
yes i've listened to it, although i don't know which version. felt like a QS happy accident upmix.
 

par4ken

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yes i've listened to it, although i don't know which version. felt like a QS happy accident upmix.
Disagree!!! Play the stereo via Involve to see if it sounds at all like OD's version. I highly doubt it. Stereo via QS produces mainly front centre and side images, not four corner images unless the recording was encoded in some way!
 
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fredblue

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Disagree!!! Play the stereo via Involve to see if it sounds at all like OD's version. I highly doubt it. Stereo via QS produces mainly front centre and side images, not four corner images unless the recording was encoded in some way!
ok i will give it a go running the Stereo through the SM and fish out OD's version too, to give it another airing 👍
 

Mark Anderson

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I have both OD versions and the sound really good. The one thing I noticed is that the recordings are identical to the stereo version. The song falling down which only appeared in quad on the koss perspectives sampler is vastly different to the stereo version. Those two things lead me to believe the OD version is an upmix from normal stereo version
 
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Have you listened to it? I believe it to be genuine. OD would of had contacts that wished to remain nameless but generous enough to share (he stated that fact). A similar situation with the Michael Robin reels. They were genuine as well! I only recall one or two mistakes from OD. He would quickly withdraw a release when found not to actual quad and that didn't happen often. However I don't think that he ever acknowledged that The Beach Boys stuff that was supposed to be Dyna, was actually something different (there is a post here someplace about that).

OD could be very obnoxious at times but was not a liar. While an upmix could of been made from a stereo copy of "So What" there is absolutely no reason that OD would do that! I just wished that he would of "released" the QS as well as his own decode. He actually released two versions the second using an updated script.

OD was the first to point out that "Lucifer's Friend" was not SQ even though clearly labeled as such. That started a shouting match that eventually got OD banned. I had always just assumed that it was mixed using an SQ encoder but mixed to sound best in stereo, I never would thought that a legit record company would have the audacity to do something like that!
I didn’t realize "Lucifer's Friend" wasn’t actually SQ, but it doesn’t sound that great in Quad, but then again it’s SQ :)
 

par4ken

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ok i will give it a go running the Stereo through the SM and fish out OD's version too, to give it another airing 👍
I didn’t realize "Lucifer's Friend" wasn’t actually SQ, but it doesn’t sound that great in Quad, but then again it’s SQ :)
SQ is the best matrix IMHO, but I admit that they did have some of the worst decoders as well. I think some of the cheapest units had only 2-pole all pass network! Most used four pole The original Audionics used a 6-pole filter as did the Fosgate Tate decoders. The Audionics S&IC used an 8-pole filter. Don't get me started about the use of fixed blend, Yuck!
 

fizzywiggs41

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Thanks Fizzy, think you could write the whole dead wax out for us, kinda hard to see.

I was fortunate to find a first pressing of “Experience Gloria Gaynor” which is QS encoded; great album also, don’t think of it as disco (not that I’d mind that either) but it’s more a funky-soul album.

Yea,I thought it might be a problem.

Side one :

T 1 PD2 -9502 -1 TML -S 1
Also towards the bottom it has : D 5 (that D almost looks like a C )

20211203_122700.jpg
20211203_124040.jpg
 

fizzywiggs41

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Dog Style was released, just under a different tile (Coming Down Your Way). Here is a link to the stereo test pressing.

Yes Ken thanks,

RE DOG STYLE;
Someone on QQ straigtened me out about that being the working title for Coming Down Your Way .
I think it was the member from Castelgar B C .

I would love to know if they completed Joy To Tne World ,Best Of Three Dog 🐕 Night in Quad ?
That one contains some excellent hits.

:love:
 

fizzywiggs41

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Disagree!!! Play the stereo via Involve to see if it sounds at all like OD's version. I highly doubt it. Stereo via QS produces mainly front centre and side images, not four corner images unless the recording was encoded in some way!

Oh I know of a couple of mistakes he made . But never try and get him to admit he was wrong or misinformed.
Remember he was trying to promote (or sell) his scripts to everyone he could.
And just before joining QQ I was a member of his Site. I quit due to his strange paranoia.


FWIW He did have access to some very rare quads and BBC H , UHJ , QS , EV STEREO-4 and Dolby MP ,as well as a couple of rare SQ . (Even 1 of early ambisonics 45j ). Oh well so we move on.

And also I'm on Quadtrade's side ,when it comes to those 2 Billingsgate SQ albums. I also think they were stereo pushed through an SQ Encoder . But they did a shitty job .

Fizzio
 

fizzywiggs41

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Ken,

Yes he did state that their were a large number of Beach Boys albums in Dynaquad previously unknown.
And had them for down loads ,but just for a short while.....and then he rapidly pulled them.
To be fair though ,through my sleuthing on the Beach Boys , I too was suckered. Actually I was surprised at how many were mentioned . He had a couple of their disc's I never suspected.

Anyway the information from Stephen Desper was very confusing (for me) . And he did not engineer some of the suspected ones .
His method of a re -angeling of the 45/45 cutting lathe is still a mystery . I suppose it could cause some type of stereo expansion ,maybe a warble in lieu of a warpage .
 

par4ken

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Oh I know of a couple of mistakes he made . But never try and get him to admit he was wrong or misinformed.
Remember he was trying to promote (or sell) his scripts to everyone he could.
And just before joining QQ I was a member of his Site. I quit due to his strange paranoia.


FWIW He did have access to some very rare quads and BBC H , UHJ , QS , EV STEREO-4 and Dolby MP ,as well as a couple of rare SQ . (Even 1 of early ambisonics 45j ). Oh well so we move on.

And also I'm on Quadtrade's side ,when it comes to those 2 Billingsgate SQ albums. I also think they were stereo pushed through an SQ Encoder . But they did a shitty job .

Fizzio
He promoted his script, I think out of a desire for the glory, he never tried to sell them, he just wouldn't release them to us unworthy minions!

Yes he was wrong on occasion and would completely dismiss opposing points of view but I'm sure that he is correct about the Billingsgate albums. Lucifer's Friend was released much earlier in Europe about 1970 just before quad and is the same mix as the Billingsgate LP's! I too used to think "they were stereo pushed through an SQ Encoder . But they did a shitty job". The evidence indicates otherwise.
 
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