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Two Channels of Grateful Dead's 1970 Quad Broadcast Available on Wolfgang's Vault

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zabble

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http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/grateful-dead/concerts/winterland-october-04-1970.html?utm_source=NL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=120327


"...Bill Graham would publicize this event as Quicksilver's farewell performance assuring a sellout at Winterland that left many clamoring for tickets. To accommodate the demand, a local television and radio simulcast was devised, but unlike any simulcast that had been attempted before this one had a visionary concept -- quadraphonic surround sound! At a time that long predated multichannel broadcasting this was achieved by transmitting live over 2 FM radio stations simultaneously. San Francisco's TV station, KQED, would broadcast the video signal, the rear audio channels over their sister FM station and San Francisco's KSAN FM would simulcast the front two audio channels. To experience the quadraphonic mix required listeners to set up 2 FM receivers and two stereo systems in the same room. Conspicuously missing from this monumental night of seminal San Francisco bands was Janis Joplin and Big Brother & The Holding Co, which had parted ways two years prior. Sadly nobody would ever see Janis Joplin again as she passed away this very same night just a few hundred miles away in Los Angeles, a news flash that was intentionally kept from the performers."

Now the task is to find the KQED broadcast and marry it with this one to finally be able to hear this historic broadcast the way it was meant to be heard. Here’s the email teaser I was sent:

“Simulcasted across 2 radio stations and one TV station, this 1970 Grateful Dead concert was a technical standout as listeners were able to listen in quadrophonic sound (if only kids these days knew what they were missing!). Incidentally, the band and crowd were kept in the dark as this was the night when Janis Joplin passed away. A bittersweet and timely concert, check out this awesome set that includes a rare cut of "Brokedown Palace." Download this show now.”
 

Old Quad Guy

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I've thought about this too for a long time. I remember this program when it happened and the other Quadraphonic broadcasts that were here. We were lucky to have such a variety of music here. KQED has always been our local PBS station for San Francisco. Anyway, I'm fairly certain that there must be recordings from both stations out there as a lot of folks had stereo recording equipment. It wasn't as common as what we now have, but fairly available to most folks one way or another. The "Dead Head" community must have these recordings at the very least.
 

georgeshannon

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I believe they are sets. One is the KSAN and the other is the KQED. There are two sources for the sets.
 
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jimfisheye

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That a "Woofgang's Vault" bootleg would be posted with two channels of the quad program removed is certainly in character with that grifter!

That aside...
Is anyone on point with all (some of) the quad live broadcast mixes?
I have a copy of allegedly the pre broadcast decoded SQ of the Genesis 1975 Lamb show excerpts.
Makes me say hmmm...

I'm aware that these are live broadcast mixes to begin with and the mixes themselves are a little dodgy. (Not a strong complaint. They're live mixed and imperfect. No after the fact tweaking with a multitrack.) So I'm not sure if any critique I have is aimed at the encoding/decoding element or the mix itself. With so many variables right from the top and all the opportunity for missteps in handling as these are shared, such recordings/mixes could turn into a real shit show pretty quickly! (Like some asshole removing two channels, for example.)

Has this been discussed?
 

Mark Anderson

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The links are from Archive.org and suspect that these are not a Wolfgang vault release. Also these are discrete broadcasts so no matrix to destroy.
I agree that live mixing is hit and miss as I have many experiences myself with that captured to tape, these being discrete and technology today to align in our computer I have hoped that these would eventually see the light of day in quad. Besides I am a sucker for the Dead.
Beside the fact that FM compression and over the air artifacts exist, a discrete broadcast can be really entertaining.
I hope this and Calibration July 11, 1970 can be salvaged as the video from Calibration not being to good the performance was really cool on some songs.
I doubt that the average Joe had a four channel reel in 1970 to record both feeds so folks with 2 channel recorders tuned into one station or the other.
 

jimfisheye

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I suspect these are all interesting mixes, flaws and all. It's a challenge to mix like that. Discussion of the flaws is more academic. These quad mixes are especially the kind of recording that gets destroyed by a misstep even with the best intentions at play. Just kind of wondering what might be going on to unbury some of these and preserve them and what is or isn't possible or still even exists.
 

quadsearcher

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When the Archive was new to me, there was a section of GD four channel sync-ups. I don't know if this was there, or any radio broadcasts, but at least some of them were board mixes in front, audience mics in back. Kind of a cool idea. I used to do that with two channel, just to hear the mix both ways. The whole section of four-channel disappeared. I don't know why the GD organization would encourage taping and sharing, but draw the line at that.
 

jimfisheye

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I'll still put together stereo 2-track in front and audience in the rears when it comes up. Only in cases where there's no multitrack of course. Would be a crime to not mix a multitrack to discrete surround! But when only a stereo board mix and audience recordings exist... It's sure better than just stereo now isn't it! Usually works out well for balances too. The original live mix balance in the venue is the live sound in the room - some naturally loud and some amplified sounds coming directly off the stage + the reinforcement mix in the PA. The board tape comes out skewed by itself, missing the live not or lesser amplified parts. Put the two together and you often get the proper balance back. It may not be a discrete surround mix but it's immersive and a more proper balance and live feel.

But these quad sq broadcasts were discrete mixes. Or at least had elements of discreteness. They weren't just room mics brought up in the rears. Or were some of them? These seem like something some obsessive engineer somewhere might champion to unearth and restore. Anyone know of a project like that going on?
 

halbroome

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After Jerry died, his widow forbid board mixes -- hoping to cash in on them, no doubt -- so the Archive had to take them down.

At least that's the story I heard. . . .

When the Archive was new to me, there was a section of GD four channel sync-ups. I don't know if this was there, or any radio broadcasts, but at least some of them were board mixes in front, audience mics in back. Kind of a cool idea. I used to do that with two channel, just to hear the mix both ways. The whole section of four-channel disappeared. I don't know why the GD organization would encourage taping and sharing, but draw the line at that.
 

Old Quad Guy

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I was, good god, 11 years old when the live Quadraphonic show aired and I remember it. Every now and then, at the bottom of the screen was white lettering that said something like, “Quadraphonic Broadcast” with the two FM radio stations you needed to hear it that way. I also remember KQED pretty much showed the whole concert, which if memory serves, went on for hours and hours.

So, somewhere out there is a Quadraphonic night of music, assuming the tapes exist. I’m guessing the room was recorded. The FCC was tight back then, so there would have been music broadcast from both radio stations. I was aware of what Quadraphonic was back then. The first commercial Quad R2R music was released at the Mall, Sun Valley Mall’s record store “Music Box” had the classical music reels. I was an original mall rat, as the saying eventually went, and I knew all the employees and manager well. I asked the manager, a nice young lady what Quadraphonic was? I had a decent Sony R2R, even then, that had been given to me, but it was only stereo.

Anyway, I’m writing this post just to remember a certain time and place in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Edit: There is the project to archive every single Grateful Dead show. The project is authorized by the group, if I’m not mistaken, and even audience recordings are desired, even encouraged to be submitted as well.
 

Mark Anderson

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I checked the two sources on Archive.org and they are from the same feed. They could be soundboard and not FM sourced also. I checked easytree.org and no luck for this date
 

MRIinIT

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The archive have about 5 or 6 DSD 5.1 multichannel Dead shows on there. Unfortunately they are streaming only. I’m having a hard time trying to find anyone who has them. But from the comments, they say Cornell 77 sounds Fantastic in surround.
 

Mark Anderson

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Thanks for the tip. I could not find any at Archive.org but will keep looking. I was surprised how much the surround collection had grown in various formats since I last visited (probably 8 years ago)
 
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