UD-4 Information

[sspsandy]

Don't need to click on them now, they are in the posting. Cool.

 

[radioheadrox]

Hey, I noticed that you put the UD-4 logo in the QQ banner image, Jon. Very cool

 

[The Quadfather]

Hey y'all, thanks for the logo.

The Quadfather

 

[JonUrban]

Hey, I noticed that you put the UD-4 logo in the QQ banner image, Jon. Very cool

Yes I did! And I promise that I will get a webpage up with all of Nick's UD-4 info when I get into some "free time" coming (hopefully) by the end of this month. I have to implement the newest vB Homepage software, then I can use it to have the UD-4 and more sections done!

Hang in there!

 

[JonUrban]

Here is the first attempt. I have to "rearrange" it, and spruce it up. However, for those who can't wait.

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/QQ-ud4.htm

Very interesting Hi-Fi News piece there. (I had to type it in by hand, so watch out for weirdness)

 

[Malcolm2010]

Well today I became the proud owner of a Denon UDA-100, cost me £33 ($60).

it is here:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5726980683&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:UK:6

It should be with me in the next couple of days and I will post here on its performance. I only have the UD-4 side of Quadrafile to test with, but it was mainly bought for the CD-4 demodulator.I can directly compare QS from my QSD-2, SQ from my S&IC, UD-4 and CD-4 through the Denon.
I now have to look for a suitable UD-4/CD-4 cartridge, my Audio Technica AT-120 will not be good enough, and the AT-331 has been discontinued. Has anyone tried the AT-440?, on paper at least, it looks better than the AT-331 (It was the next model up in the range)
I don't hold out much hope of finding any UD-4 lp's that I can afford, but at least it gives me CD-4, something I have been wanting for a while. Turntable is fine, a Technics SL1200 MK 1 with low capacity leads.

Jon, add me to the small list of UD-4 owners please !!

Ralph (Quadfather) your fault !! you sold me on CD-4 after all the praise :sun

Cheers

Malcolm

 

[JonUrban]

WOW! Very nice score. I hope it works GREAT!!!!

 

[rustyandi]

Well today I became the proud owner of a Denon UDA-100, cost me £33 ($60).

it is here:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5726980683&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:UK:6

It should be with me in the next couple of days and I will post here on its performance. I only have the UD-4 side of Quadrafile to test with, but it was mainly bought for the CD-4 demodulator.I can directly compare QS from my QSD-2, SQ from my S&IC, UD-4 and CD-4 through the Denon.
I now have to look for a suitable UD-4/CD-4 cartridge, my Audio Technica AT-120 will not be good enough, and the AT-331 has been discontinued. Has anyone tried the AT-440?, on paper at least, it looks better than the AT-331 (It was the next model up in the range)
I don't hold out much hope of finding any UD-4 lp's that I can afford, but at least it gives me CD-4, something I have been wanting for a while. Turntable is fine, a Technics SL1200 MK 1 with low capacity leads.

Jon, add me to the small list of UD-4 owners please !!

Ralph (Quadfather) your fault !! you sold me on CD-4 after all the praise :sun

Cheers

Malcolm

Also you have a UHJ decoder with UD4 Matrix
I have tested it with my IMF UHJ decoder and it is
close enough
It is not as good as QSD 2 Or TATE but is does a good job
on stereo with QS switch
Ron

 

[Malcolm2010]

Also you have a UHJ decoder with UD4 Matrix
I have tested it with my IMF UHJ decoder and it is
close enough
It is not as good as QSD 2 Or TATE but is does a good job
on stereo with QS switch
Ron

Hmm.... I have a Minim AD-10 Ambisonic decoder, I will have to compare the two. From what I gather about the UDA-100, SQ and QS are basic matrix, without enhancement so it will be poor against my QSD-2 or S&IC, I can live with that as long as CD-4 is ok.

Malcolm

 

[JonUrban]

I just did a quick rearrangement, plus I added some scans of the Tubular Bells UD-4 LP that Nick sent me. Check it out at:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/QQ-ud4.htm

More to come. Remember, if you have anything to add to this page or the future CD-4, SQ, QS or "other" pages, shoot me a PM.

I hope to have an "improved" QQ main site by the end of the winter.

:-jon

 

[The Quadfather]

I am saddened to hear that the AT331LP has been discontinued. It was a great CD-4 cart for a very modest price. I hope they continue to make the stylii for awhile. I have six of the carts. I wanted to make sure I could always play my CD-4 records. At the time I did not know that others made suitable CD-4 carts. Most of those carts are in the several hundred dollar range, and even the replacement stylii are more pricey than the whole AT331LP cart. The Shure cart tracks lighter, so it probably performs better. The AT331LP requires about 2 grams to track CD-4 properly. I reckon I need to order some stylii.

The Quadfather

 

[bayards]

To all and Malcolm,

Well the UDA-100 is on the desk at work - big bugger!

For those looking for new Shibata like cartridges you may like to investigate ebay's Ed Saunders:

He says
Frequently I manufacture things that are no longer available and this is one: I have been working with Audio Technica and formerly with Pfanstiehl for some time now to develop a new discrete quad CD-4 compatible turntable cartridge. Well, today it is here. What we have done is outfit a contemporary cartridge with a bielliptical (Shibata) stylus to deliver the reverse carrier frequency that contains the channel 3 and 4 audio. That is all a quad cartridge really was to start with. The MAIN ingredient in quad is the stylus tip shape. This cartridge doesn't come with a spec sheet, it's a home brew. Let the customer comments below be your guide. Available in half-inch mount or P mount just specify which you want after the auction.

I bought one (but have yet to mount it) but lots of customer praise on his ebay shop:
Ed saunders

I thought I still had my Quadrafile LP - but can't find it. Hopefully the unit will respond to my CD-4 records if it has been set-up. I don't have any UD-4 discs.

Interesting to see the UHJ capability - I have some cassettes taken directly off air of BBC trials in the 70's (including a Genesis concert) and a Radio 4 play. Will give them a whirl and see what happens!

Malcolm - noticed your ad on the retro hifi site - if you do get a UD-4 demo record to set up in the future, could I possibly borrow it (will pay registered postage and such) - and if my searches turn anything up I'll reciprocate of course. And anyone else out there that would be willing to loan (I'm in London).

Can't wait to try my Cd-4 copy of "The Jackson's Greatest Hits" - ohhhh luvverlyeyyy!

Cheers

Howard

PS - he has another for sale at $49.95 here:
Quad cartridge for sale

 

[The Quadfather]

Ed sent me one of his carts which I agreed to review. Unfortunately it did not perform as well as the AT331LP. Now the 331LP has been discontinued, and is not supported. No doubt Ed regrets sending me that cart, but I will not lie to y'all for a free cart. I reckon I will have to go to an expensive cart when I need to buy one.

The Quadfather

To all and Malcolm,

Well the UDA-100 is on the desk at work - big bugger!

For those looking for new Shibata like cartridges you may like to investigate ebay's Ed Saunders:

He says
Frequently I manufacture things that are no longer available and this is one: I have been working with Audio Technica and formerly with Pfanstiehl for some time now to develop a new discrete quad CD-4 compatible turntable cartridge. Well, today it is here. What we have done is outfit a contemporary cartridge with a bielliptical (Shibata) stylus to deliver the reverse carrier frequency that contains the channel 3 and 4 audio. That is all a quad cartridge really was to start with. The MAIN ingredient in quad is the stylus tip shape. This cartridge doesn't come with a spec sheet, it's a home brew. Let the customer comments below be your guide. Available in half-inch mount or P mount just specify which you want after the auction.

I bought one (but have yet to mount it) but lots of customer praise on his ebay shop:
Ed saunders

I thought I still had my Quadrafile LP - but can't find it. Hopefully the unit will respond to my CD-4 records if it has been set-up. I don't have any UD-4 discs.

Interesting to see the UHJ capability - I have some cassettes taken directly off air of BBC trials in the 70's (including a Genesis concert) and a Radio 4 play. Will give them a whirl and see what happens!

Malcolm - noticed your ad on the retro hifi site - if you do get a UD-4 demo record to set up in the future, could I possibly borrow it (will pay registered postage and such) - and if my searches turn anything up I'll reciprocate of course. And anyone else out there that would be willing to loan (I'm in London).

Can't wait to try my Cd-4 copy of "The Jackson's Greatest Hits" - ohhhh luvverlyeyyy!

Cheers

Howard

PS - he has another for sale at $49.95 here:
Quad cartridge for sale

 

[bayards]

Ed sent me one of his carts which I agreed to review. Unfortunately it did not perform as well as the AT331LP. Now the 331LP has been discontinued, and is not supported. No doubt Ed regrets sending me that cart, but I will not lie to y'all for a free cart. I reckon I will have to go to an expensive cart when I need to buy one.

The Quadfather

I mounted mine in my new Technics turntable - and CD4 is very good. I can't compare (or remember that far back to when I had original equipment) but is does a good job. I don't have any UD4 discs to try out, but at $49 for the odd conversion job it's not a bad buy.

I just wish LP's didn't crackle and plop so much!

H

 

[The Quadfather]

It could have been that I got a flawed cartridge. However, I suspect anyone who would have sent a cartridge for review purposes would have sent a hand picked one. My experience was that when I took off the AT331LP cart, and put on the Saunders cart, I started getting splatters occasionally that I did not get with the AT331LP. (Actually I was using a Trackmaster 8 which is identical to the AT331LP.) The Trackmaster 8 as well as the AT331LP are not quad era carts, and for that matter, are not even sold as "quad" carts. These carts are both discontinued, so the Saunders cart is now in the position of being the only inexpensive quad cart left. If I am wrong about this cart, then I will issue Mr Saunders an apology. I suspect that at some time I will be re-evaluating this cart as my Trackmaster stylii wear out. It is my understanding that since UD-4 used subcarriers only for the low end of the audio spectrum, it did not require a special cart. A common elliptical type would do. That was it's main advantage over CD-4, but since it used matrix decoding for the high end, it wasn't truly discrete. However, I hear it was still quite good.

The Quadfather

I mounted mine in my new Technics turntable - and CD4 is very good. I can't compare (or remember that far back to when I had original equipment) but is does a good job. I don't have any UD4 discs to try out, but at $49 for the odd conversion job it's not a bad buy.

I just wish LP's didn't crackle and plop so much!

H

 

[xpablo]

hello! i'm new to this format and i really like to know all the legendary format,
can anyone tell me where can i get the uda-100 or ud-4 service manual just for personal research, because i need to know what the technology inside that system and how the system operate.
thanks to everyone in this forum.

 

[The Quadfather]

UD-4 was a cross between CD-4 and QS. It split the audio spectrum in two, and for the lower frequencies, used a subcarrier like CD-4. Since the subcarrier was not modulated with any of the higher frequencies, it did not require a special stylus to track up to 45 khz. I do not know what the center frequency was, or if it was the same as for CD-4. The upper part of the band was encoded with QS. Since QS uses no subcarrier, it again did not require the special stylus. UD-4 was never a mainstream technology, and therefore as a quaddie, you will not really need to aquire it. There were very few releases from what I understand. But for curiousity reasons, it's an interesting format.

The Quadfather

hello! i'm new to this format and i really like to know all the legendary format,
can anyone tell me where can i get the uda-100 or ud-4 service manual just for personal research, because i need to know what the technology inside that system and how the system operate.
thanks to everyone in this forum.

 

[xpablo]

thanks Quadfather for your reply, now i'm getting more understand about this technology.
but if this system more transparent than other quad unit on that time why the manufacture don't produce any more?

 

[Scottmoose]

thanks Quadfather for your reply, now i'm getting more understand about this technology.
but if this system more transparent than other quad unit on that time why the manufacture don't produce any more?

Why did it vanish? Simple: Quadraphonics died. And that took UD-4, and multi-channel home-audio with it for upwards of a decade. There were any number of reasons, and we can argue about them until the cows come home, but it doesn't alter the fact. Some say quad didn't die; that's just wishful thinking. Yes, a few enthusiasts kept the flame alive, just as we are doing at the moment, but that's not enough. No matter how good a format is, if people don't buy it (whatever the reason) it will not survive.

Basically, UD-4 sadly arrived very late in the day, in the twilight of Quadraphonic's life, by which point quad was in general seen as a joke by most consumers bewildered by the variety of formats, few of which were initially any good (they got better, but the damage was already done). That's also probably why the discrete 4 channel potential designed into good old CD from the outset was never used.

UD-4 was perhaps the ultimate quad format, or would have been, had it survived, and in some ways paved the way for ambisonics, of which it was a distant ancestor, so it's still lurking around, even if you didn't know it. Have a look at ambisonic related sites, and it pops up. It worked superbly well; I heard a UD-4 setup a while back. Fed via a Linn LP12, and with 4 towering hand-built 8' tall Voigt Pipe speakers using classic Philips Motional Response drivers, the sound defied description. It was vast -epic, stretching for miles in all directions. I've heard nothing like it, and probably never will again, which makes me want to cry, it really does.

So, UD-4 itself vanished, which means we're back to asking why Quad died in general. We've discussed this at length before on the forum; so I won't attempt to go into them all here; have a browse.

Best
Scott

 

[xpablo]

I have all of those AES papers about UD-4, as well as those on CD-4 and the matrix formats. I have already sent Jon much of it, which is what his new page on UD-4 will be based on. I hadn't sent the AES technical information, but will do so now. He (Jon) already has the information booklet that Nippon-Columbia offered to the press when the system was introduced for sale. I will scan and send the AES technical papers shortly. UD-4 was initially sold in the Japanese market, then introduced in England. Plans were for USA introduction when the quad market collapsed. I have supplied Jon with a complete disc release list. There was only one demodulator model sold, the UDA-100, which also demodulates CD-4 and has basic non-logic positions for SQ & QS as well. There were several prototype models made that only demodulate UD-4, having no CD-4 or matrix settings. I have the full schematics and service manual for the UDA-100. I once submitted the schematics to a contact at JVC in Japan who ran the CD-4 department back in the day. The UDA-100 is based on later JVC designs in the demodulation section, having automatic carrier level control. I have all the prototype models, some which play in the matrix only mode, and others that add the carrier directionality, in addition to the commercially sold UDA-100. I find UD-4 to be a fine system. The only albums that I can directly compare musically and separation wise to other formats are Quadraphile, Tubular Bells 4YX-9026, and the Buddy Cole 4RX-9012 which was released by Alshire in the USA on QS and Q8. I have never found the other title that would directly compare, 4RX-9011 The World of Bacharach & Webb / 101 Strings Orchestra. I'm pressed for time now, I'll post or send more information next week.

Hi Quad First, can you send me the schematic of UDA-100 or any UD-4 system, I'm really like to know what inside this system and how the circuit is operating.
thanks.
[email protected]