Upgrading a Fosgate Tate II 101A

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arcanadirect

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
6
Location
Crystal Lake, IL, USA
I recently acquired a Tate 101A unit. It is old but in good cosmetic shape. However, and here is my challenge, I have no idea who on earth could service this unit. Perhaps it needs some restoration work. I have no way to tell and would need an expert to help me out. Also, I understand that there are some recommended modifications that would be beneficial. I believe the the gentelman that designed these modifications is named Bob Popham. I would very much like to learn more about those mods and also find someone with sufficient knowledge to implement them on my unit. Does anyone know who to reach Mr. Popham?

Can anyone out there, specially those who have deeper knowledge and experience, recommend to me a Tate II 101A expert to service my unit and do the Bob Popham modifications?

Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciate as I am a novice in this area.

Thank you in advance to all of you for your time and suggestions.
 
Send him a PM. His member name is Obbop here at QQ.
 
Bob Popham did have a web site until recently for RJPC Design,
but it does not seem to be active now.
Address was
2388 Leland Ave. #C
Grand Junction, CO 81505
970-245-4393
bpopham at rjpc dot com


vinylguy4
 
Thanks for all the replies. I am new to this forum so I will navigate the system to see how to contact Bob or send him a letter. Does anyone know if we still does restorations and upgrades for the Tate 101A? Again, I appreciate the time and energy in responding.

Fernando
 
Hi,

although I am not offering such a service, I have done some upgrading of old Tate's.

Here in europe, the power supplies are humming at nowadays 230 volts. I have changed the transformer to a small toroidal model, which avoids humming.

Using solid phase capacitors, changing the old capacitors after 30 years is always a good idea. Only the two power supply capacitors will remain as (new) electrolytic types.

And, additionally, for all people interested: Jim Fosgate himself was so kind to send me a (signed ;-) copy of the schematic. Please be aware, that the three Fosgate ICs are the secret of this device - the schematic does not explain their function.

Unfortunatly, the scan files are too big for uploading (even as highly compressed JPG). If someone is interested, please leave a message or PN.

I would like to replace the low-fidelity CMOS analog switches (used heavily inside the tate) with something more audio suitable circuits. Unfortunatly again, I do not know a replacement for these chips. I would even like to produce some small adapter PCBs with a suitable SMD chip; if possible.

So far my ideas around my beloved Tate. Perhaps we should convince Anthem with their Anthem Statement D2v audio processor to integrate decoding for SQ and QS ;-)

Sincerely yours
KM
 
I would like to replace the low-fidelity CMOS analog switches (used heavily inside the tate) with something more audio suitable circuits. Unfortunatly again, I do not know a replacement for these chips. I would even like to produce some small adapter PCBs with a suitable SMD chip; if possible.

Here some datasheets:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/switches/
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/parametrics.do?id=968
http://www.analog.com/en/switchesmultiplexers/analog-switches/products/index.html
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/switches/analogswitch.html
http://focus.ti.com/analog/docs/swi...P=TIHomeTracking&HQS=Other+OT+home_p_switches

Choose some switches which fits your needs, and then find a dealer / vendor / distributor who might help you to get the chips.

-Kristian
 
Dear Kristian,

there are several old fashioned CMOS 4066 to replace inside the Tate II. A simple listing of some vendor sites does help - I am able to use the Google search engine myself.

Most chips shown on the sites of the vendors you have listed are simply not useful for this goal: For example, we cannot use an I2C wiring or similar inside the Tate II.

The goals is to find a pin-compatible, but better solution to replace these chips "insocket" without modifying the layout of the Tate's PCB - I do not want to develop a new Tate PCB.

Yours
KM
 
...there are several old fashioned CMOS 4066 to replace inside the Tate II.

The goals is to find a pin-compatible, but better solution to replace these chips "insocket" without modifying the layout of the Tate's PCB - I do not want to develop a new Tate PCB.

I don't know the Tate, so I don't know what's inside. You didn't tell us in your first posting.

Google search with "4066 replacement" got me this:

http://www.time-step.com/distribution/4066.html

Albeit a very expensive one...

-Kristian
 
Thanks! This chip was unknown to me.
I will try to search a dealer in Germany or Switherland ;-)

Yours
KM
 
Thanks! This chip was unknown to me.
I will try to search a dealer in Germany or Switherland ;-)

And here's the manufacturers page:

http://www.ant-audio.co.uk/index.php?cat=post&qry=ant4066

Maybe you'll get it cheaper there...

Edit: Reading the datasheet it seems to me the new "chip" is nothing but four discreet depletion type of fets on a small printed circuit board, then molded.

It needs a negative voltage (-1V and below) in order to shut the Drain-Source path, so this has to be taken in consideration in the design of the Tate. Have a look at the document describing the Nakamichi tapedeck modification for a possible solution.

(Auch nur 'ne Bastellösung...)

Good luck!
-Kristian
 
Here in europe, the power supplies are humming at nowadays 230 volts. I have changed the transformer to a small toroidal model, which avoids humming.

So that is what causing the humming. I have been wondering for a while.
Any change that you can help me to change the transformer?
 
Hi,

which kind of help do you need?
You have to find a supplier (e.g. www.conrad.com) for a suitable toroidal transformator with voltage for your country (e.g. 110 or 230 volts) .

Afterwards, you have to will have to do some soldering. Every good electrician should be able to do this job.

Where are you located?

Sincerely yours
KM
 
Hi all,

here my description for all Tate owners, who might be interested in changing the transformer core to avoid the humming of this awful part. The manufacturer was were well aware of this humming, since there is a rubber cup under the upper cover to avoid this humming.

For european inhabitants: The Tate can easily be changed from 115 Volts to 230 volts internally by removing two soldered wires beneath the transformer core and replacing them by one. The four soldering points resp. holes "x" are marked with the corresponding Voltage: x 117 x 240 x 240 x. Have a look inside, this will be more explanatory than my words :)

A toroidal transformer 2 x 18 Volt, 15 VA (i.e. Conrad Artikel-Nr.: 518611 - 62) will be suitable. Be careful while soldering: There is -NO- isolating sheet between the 230 Volt wires underneath the PCB and the metal case, which is -NOT- grounded.

The Tate with its metal cover is -NOT- compliant to common electrical safety regulations (missing every isolation inside against the metal cover); it might become dangerous!

Additionally, I would recommend to replace the 30 years old capacitors around the transformer. Much luck!

Yours
KM
 

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Thank you all for the great observations and recommendations. I still have some key and important questions for the group:

- Can anyone recommend to me a person that can actually service and / or upgrade the TATE II 101A for me?
- Was anyone heard about the famous Bob Popham modifications? Are they writen down somewhere?
- Has anyone seem or heard from Bob Popham?

Thank you,

Fernando
 
Dear Q-Friends,

for those who might be interested: I have succesfully replaced five of the the CMOS 4066 integrated circuits inside of the Tate-II with ANT-4066Q circuits.

There are at least eight CMOS 4066 used inside the Tate:
- Two are used for logic purposes (i.e. inverting a switch). Replacing will not be necessary or even work.
- Five are used for audio channel switching. 1:1 replacement is possible without PCB modifications.
- One is used for both: Two of the four channels are used for logic purposes and two channels are used for phase conversion of a channel. This one cannot be replaced without PCB modification.

Of course, desoldering of the 4066 and fitting of sockets is necessary. If there is some interest, I might prepare some pictures.

Yours
KM
 
Hi,

I cannot describe any changes in the sound: Before using the ANT-4066 circuits, I have already used some newer (and hopefully better) versions of the CMOS 4066 circuits inside of my Tate-II.

On the other side, there are some other modifications within my Tate: As you might see from my pictures, I have replaced all sound-relating capacitors with solid-phase polystyrene capacitors; avoidung electrolytic capacitors within the sound path. And, furhtermore, they will not grow old(er) like electrolytic items. Did I hear this modification?

I would have to ly: Since I have no chance for a comparison before/after, I (or at least we all) have to believe that modifications like these will give us some better or clearer sound.

Anyway, even the Tate-II isn't such a good decoder as may people are saying or writing: Yes, of course, it does an impressive job, i.e. with the CBS SQ test record. No other decoder has ever given such a good channel separation. But: Switch of the front channels of your pre- or main amp, and you can easily hear some kind of scratching or pumping within the sound of the back channels.

Funnily, this does not occur with all records: From my observation, this scratching occurs with more complex and full-range signals (resp. music); likewise classical records or full range instruments like trumpet (with high frequencies) accompanied by organ (with low frequencies). This scratching cannot be heard during stereophonic reproduction without the Tate.

Perhaps you might like to know, what kind of devices I am using for listening music. I am using an EMT 938 turntable, a Denon AVP-A1 (AVP 8000 in the U.S.) as multi-channel preamp, a SMX multichannel switchboard and Yamaha M2/M4 amps.

And yes, multichannel is always fun :)

Yours
KM
 
For european inhabitants: The Tate can easily be changed from 115 Volts to 230 volts internally by removing two soldered wires beneath the transformer core and replacing them by one. The four soldering points resp. holes "x" are marked with the corresponding Voltage: x 117 x 240 x 240 x. Have a look inside, this will be more explanatory than my words :)


I realize that this is a thread from some time ago, but I decided to change my unit to 230V and replace the transformer core to get finally rid of the humming sound.
Although Mandelatz mention that it is easy, I don't want to take a risk and want to use the wiring diagram too.
Is there a wiring diagram of this unit available? Who can provide me with a copy?
Thank you in advance.
 
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