Using a turntable through an AV amp - advice needed

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BKarloff

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Hi,

I currently listen to all my music (either streaming or CD/SACD,/Blu Ray) through my AV amp which is a Denon AVR-X4500H.
When I'm not listening in surround and just stereo I change the setting to multi channel stereo, which gives everything a much fuller and more dynamic sound. Listening in stereo only sounds pretty weedy and uninspiring.

So a question. I have quite a bit of vinyl which I'd like to start playing again, so need to invest in a turntable.

I'm aware that if I hook this up to my Denon I'm going to be faced with the same problem when listening to CDs in stereo. And assuming that when listening in vinyl I won't have the 'multi channel stereo' option.

Is there a turntable that will sound good when hooked up to this AV unit or will I need to set it up with a completely separate dedicated amp wired to the same front speakers to get the best sound?

And advice gratefully received.

Thanks
 

LuvMyQuad

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On equipment I've owned, "multi channel stereo" is the same stereo signal playing through multiple pairs of speakers. Like party mode, meant to provide sound everywhere. I'm not sure if that's what you are going for,

Your Denon should be capable of digitizing any stereo input and playing it back in some kind of faux surround. It shouldn't matter if the source is analog or digital.

The "pretty weedy and uninspiring" stereo sound in comparison to "multi channel stereo" might well be the volume difference between the two modes.

Does your AVR have a phono input?
 

DuncanS

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Hi,

I currently listen to all my music (either streaming or CD/SACD,/Blu Ray) through my AV amp which is a Denon AVR-X4500H.
When I'm not listening in surround and just stereo I change the setting to multi channel stereo, which gives everything a much fuller and more dynamic sound. Listening in stereo only sounds pretty weedy and uninspiring.

So a question. I have quite a bit of vinyl which I'd like to start playing again, so need to invest in a turntable.

I'm aware that if I hook this up to my Denon I'm going to be faced with the same problem when listening to CDs in stereo. And assuming that when listening in vinyl I won't have the 'multi channel stereo' option.

Is there a turntable that will sound good when hooked up to this AV unit or will I need to set it up with a completely separate dedicated amp wired to the same front speakers to get the best sound?

And advice gratefully received.

Thanks
I just looked on line and your Denon AVR-X4500H has an MM phone input (so needs a Moving Magnet not Moving Coil cartridge), so its really down to how much you want to spend on the TT & cartridge.

As LuvMyQuad says you should be able to select any of the DSP modes or surround decode options (like Aura-3D, Dolby or DTS:X etc.) to 'enhance' the stereo from either the CD or LP. I used to listen to my SQ Quad LPs in Dolby ProLogic II until I got an Involve SM2 - but your amp doesn't have multi-channel analogue inputs so thats not an option.
 

BKarloff

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Sorry I probably wasn't very clear in my original post. I don't want particularly to listen to my stereo CDs or vinyl in multi channel surround, it's just that when I'm playing regular stereo CDs it sounds so much better in that mode.

I've read than AV units aren't very good as doubling up as stereo amps so my question was more about do I need to rig up a separated dedicated amp to my speakers to get the best out of stereo listening (vinyl and CD) or is there a way of setting up a new record player to the AV unit to get the best out of it in terms of stereo sound.

Sorry for any confusion!
 

DuncanS

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I'd say no you don't need another amp just for stereo (and I'm an Electronic Engineer so denying other engineers an income on that one :)), that 'thought' is pushed by stereo amp manufacturers! The sound 'quality' is more affected by your loudspeakers and the room acoustics, so if you're happy with your multi-channel sound you should be for your stereo. I have floorstanders all round, a matched centre, and no-sub. If you spent the same on a stereo amp as your multi-channel amp you'd get a better amp, but would you hear the difference? Probably not. I listen to stereo CD/LP/BDA/SACD through my multi-channel amp with no 'issues'.
 

LuvMyQuad

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Sorry I probably wasn't very clear in my original post. I don't want particularly to listen to my stereo CDs or vinyl in multi channel surround, it's just that when I'm playing regular stereo CDs it sounds so much better in that mode.

I've read than AV units aren't very good as doubling up as stereo amps so my question was more about do I need to rig up a separated dedicated amp to my speakers to get the best out of stereo listening (vinyl and CD) or is there a way of setting up a new record player to the AV unit to get the best out of it in terms of stereo sound.

Sorry for any confusion!
However you play your stereo CDs that makes the experience acceptable for you, the same can be done with your existing equipment to play LPs. As I said, a large portion of the difference you hear is likely a volume difference. Play a CD in the multi channel mode you use and compare it to the stereo mode but be sure to adjust for the volume difference. The stereo mode will need more volume. Ill bet a good portion of your dissatisfaction will disappear.

The business about AVRs being sub par for stereo reproduction is hogwash. Are we to believe that a stereo receiver is going to sound better just because it only has 2 internal amps? A stereo amp may offer more power, but used within its limits, a multichannel amp will perform well.

Also, I'm not sure if hooking up a second stereo power amp directly (no switching device) to the same set of speakers shared with a MCH amp may alter the impedance seen by both amps. Maybe others might offer some insight on this.
 

DuncanS

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However you play your stereo CDs that makes the experience acceptable for you, the same can be done with your existing equipment to play LPs. As I said, a large portion of the difference you hear is likely a volume difference. Play a CD in the multi channel mode you use and compare it to the stereo mode but be sure to adjust for the volume difference. The stereo mode will need more volume. Ill bet a good portion of your dissatisfaction will disappear.

The business about AVRs being sub par for stereo reproduction is hogwash. Are we to believe that a stereo receiver is going to sound better just because it only has 2 internal amps? A stereo amp may offer more power, but used within its limits, a multichannel amp will perform well.

Also, I'm not sure if hooking up a second stereo power amp directly (no switching device) to the same set of speakers shared with a MCH amp may alter the impedance seen by both amps. Maybe others might offer some insight on this.
You really do need a loudspeaker switch unit.
 
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Bay City, Michigan
Hi,

I currently listen to all my music (either streaming or CD/SACD,/Blu Ray) through my AV amp which is a Denon AVR-X4500H.
When I'm not listening in surround and just stereo I change the setting to multi channel stereo, which gives everything a much fuller and more dynamic sound. Listening in stereo only sounds pretty weedy and uninspiring.

So a question. I have quite a bit of vinyl which I'd like to start playing again, so need to invest in a turntable.

I'm aware that if I hook this up to my Denon I'm going to be faced with the same problem when listening to CDs in stereo. And assuming that when listening in vinyl I won't have the 'multi channel stereo' option.

Is there a turntable that will sound good when hooked up to this AV unit or will I need to set it up with a completely separate dedicated amp wired to the same front speakers to get the best sound?

And advice gratefully received.

Thanks
I have a similar setup to you, at least the receiver with a Denon X3600H and when I listen to stereo sources I typically never use the Multi-Channel Stereo mode. I normally use either DTS-X or Dolby Surround to upmix the signal to my 4 speakers on the floor and my 4 height speakers in my ceiling. To me at least, these last 2 modes sound much better than the Multi-Channel stereo mode. The bottom line is: if you purchase a turntable, be sure to get one with a moving magnet cartridge unless you have access to a step up transformer to enable use of a moving coil cartridge. Then treat the incoming signal from your turntable just like you do with your other stereo sources like CD. Best of luck to you getting setup and always feel free to ask questions here. Lots of knowledgeable and friendly folks on this forum.
 

BKarloff

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I have a similar setup to you, at least the receiver with a Denon X3600H and when I listen to stereo sources I typically never use the Multi-Channel Stereo mode. I normally use either DTS-X or Dolby Surround to upmix the signal to my 4 speakers on the floor and my 4 height speakers in my ceiling. To me at least, these last 2 modes sound much better than the Multi-Channel stereo mode. The bottom line is: if you purchase a turntable, be sure to get one with a moving magnet cartridge unless you have access to a step up transformer to enable use of a moving coil cartridge. Then treat the incoming signal from your turntable just like you do with your other stereo sources like CD. Best of luck to you getting setup and always feel free to ask questions here. Lots of knowledgeable and friendly folks on this forum.
Thank you, really appreciate this. I tried those other modes DTS-X and Dolby Surround on my stereo signals but compared to Multi-Channel Stereo they just sound weedy and thin in comparison. I guess it's horses for courses but for me Multi Channel gives a full rich sound across all my speakers (I have a 5.1 set up).
In terms of the turntable I was looking at this one.

Sony PSHX500.CEK Turntable for Playing Vinyl and Recording in High-Resolution Audio Quality - Black(430x104x366mm (WHD)) https://amzn.eu/c6ydHMv


What do you think? I like the idea of digitising stuff not available on CD .
How would I set it up to the Denon, analogue cables into phono input?

Sorry I'm a bit of a novice with all this.....
 

DuncanS

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Sony PSHX500.CEK Turntable for Playing Vinyl and Recording in High-Resolution Audio Quality - Black(430x104x366mm (WHD)) https://amzn.eu/c6ydHMv

What do you think? I like the idea of digitising stuff not available on CD .
How would I set it up to the Denon, analogue cables into phono input?

Sorry I'm a bit of a novice with all this.....

Yes, but select the PHONO output for the RCAs and connect them to your amp Phono input.
1658348533626.png

Alternatively select LINE and connect to an unused analogue input, like DVD, CD etc.
1658348734765.png


To record you'll need to connect the USB to your PC.
 

windhoek

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My AVR is connected to my stereo amp via Pre-Out/AV Bypass In so that the stereo amp powers the front speakers in all cases. I do this because in general AVRs aren't as good at playing music as they with film and TV stuff. So if you can accommodate another box I'd suggest adding a power amplifier, or if you need the extra inputs, I'd add an integrated amp. That way you pretty much get the best of both worlds when it comes to multichannel AV content and stereo music.
 
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Thank you, really appreciate this. I tried those other modes DTS-X and Dolby Surround on my stereo signals but compared to Multi-Channel Stereo they just sound weedy and thin in comparison. I guess it's horses for courses but for me Multi Channel gives a full rich sound across all my speakers (I have a 5.1 set up).
In terms of the turntable I was looking at this one.

Sony PSHX500.CEK Turntable for Playing Vinyl and Recording in High-Resolution Audio Quality - Black(430x104x366mm (WHD)) https://amzn.eu/c6ydHMv


What do you think? I like the idea of digitising stuff not available on CD .
How would I set it up to the Denon, analogue cables into phono input?

Sorry I'm a bit of a novice with all this.....
Yes, what DuncanS said about hooking it up and from what I read, this turntable appears to be a solid entry level table to do what you require. Should you want to upgrade the cartridge for better sound, that looks to be easy to do too.
 

relaxing

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I play my stereo vinyl through the multi-channel setting in my Marantz for the same reasons noted here.

“If it sounds good, it is good.”
 
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