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par4ken

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LOL,, I got a number of claims of members having "no rice krispies" but no one tried to deny having (off center records, wow & flutter, warped records, records that change resolution from outer to inner grooves cause every single one ever made does, mono bass, and all the rest.
Guys, feel free to enjoy playing your records as much as you like, they can be fun to experience along with a black and white movie. Just please snap out of these claims of vinyl & tubes sounding "better". Better would always be closer to the sound of the master tape. For any number of reasons you may enjoy listening to these obsolete technologies, but they are vastly inferior to modern digital and solid state reproduction.
It's almost Christmas and I used to enjoy going to downtown Chicago and taking a horse and carriage ride around Michigan Ave and the sales district, but I wouldn't want to give up having a new C8 Corvette for it. LOL.



As to DR Expanders, Back in the day I ran a Phase Linear 1000 Autocorrelator Noise Reduction System. Although not useful for rice krispies it did an excellent job of improving DR, removing surface noise and low freq rumble.
I understand there are some modern designs that offer much improved performance.

Again if you records sound like "Rice Krispies" get new ones!

There is no dynamic range left at all on many CD's, not a format problem but a production/mastering one. Another thing to consider is that the frequency response of CD's is brickwalled at 22.05Khz, no such limitation with LP's, whether or not it is audible don't try to say that CD's are superior to LP's in every way. If it sounds better, it is better.
 

Sonik Wiz

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Again if you records sound like "Rice Krispies" get new ones!

There is no dynamic range left at all on many CD's, not a format problem but a production/mastering one. Another thing to consider is that the frequency response of CD's is brickwalled at 22.05Khz, no such limitation with LP's, whether or not it is audible don't try to say that CD's are superior to LP's in every way. If it sounds better, it is better.
Well Sir, a bit of back and forth here. In general my 1st choice would not be to buy LP unless it's National Record Store Day & it's all about impulse shopping. Otherwise I will go for digital. Now as we both have a history of enjoying Klaatu, I have all releases on LP. I have many re-releases on CD. Most of them are bass boosted, and/or compressed. If I could just get the original analog master tapes on digital, I would be very happy.
 

par4ken

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Well Sir, a bit of back and forth here. In general my 1st choice would not be to buy LP unless it's National Record Store Day & it's all about impulse shopping. Otherwise I will go for digital. Now as we both have a history of enjoying Klaatu, I have all releases on LP. I have many re-releases on CD. Most of them are bass boosted, and/or compressed. If I could just get the original analog master tapes on digital, I would be very happy.
I was that way as well until I found that many CD's just didn't sound right. I had to look for mint LP's instead. One Example is Lighthouse "One Fine Morning" The Canadian GRT LP always sounded excellent. I bought the Japanese Blu-spec CD, expecting fantastic sound, but was sadly disappointed. Well I ripped it and opened it in Audition and was horrified to see that it was brick-walled. I've only kept it in my collection because it has the original artwork in a mini-LP case. I found a UK copy on "Prog Temple" and it sounds fine. I opened it in Audition and no noticeable brick walling, like night and day. Sadly it's in a standard jewel box with different cover art. Kennedy Rose "Hai Ku" sounds fantastic on vinyl, It was one of the albums that I was blown way by when working on my vacuum tube preamplifier. I bought the CD of the same title but was disappointed in the sound. I tried their other release which was only available on CD, I likewise wasn't impressed with it either. So now I'm a bit reluctant to pick up anything on CD. I have better luck with SACD's, but again sometimes the vinyl still sounds better. One final note about vinyl, every phono cartage I've ever auditioned sounds radically different, the quality of the arm and turntable makes a difference as well (be it more subtle). Switching to a Moving Coil was as big a leap as moving to a Moving Magnet from a Ceramic cartridge. Those unimpressed with vinyl likely have inferior equipment.
 

gene_stl

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If I could find a new copy of Pepe's Flamenco album I would buy it, even in LP. But it was released in 1977 and has been OOP for a long time.

I do still operate two vintage record players. A Technics SL P1 with an unobtainium boron cantilever cartridge and a Pioneer PLC 590 with a Stax arm. Various cartridges. I have a pneumatic float table , an ultrasonic cleaning bath and a vpi record cleaning machine. The previous the culmination of a very long history starting with an AR-XA and Shure M91E in 1968 with a lot in between. I was collecting parts to build a straight line tracking arm when the SLP1 became available. (Does anybody want to buy some straight SMEs) and rendered the project superfluous. CDs did too. One reason I operate two (there are other reasons that are personal) is that the one criticism of the Technics is that it does not handle records which have something on them which causes a skip. You can't gently apply side pressure to the headshell the way you can on a regular tone arm.

Sal compared vinyl to the horse drawn carriage rides. I compared tooobs to Model A collecting and restoration. It is true that CDs aren't perfect.
But they have better dynamic range than best analog tape decks ever built, upon which most vinyl masters were captured, and so when an SACD is released that has all three channels of Mercury Living Presence three channel recordings done on satisfactory Ampex machines of the 1950s I jump at the chance to get them when I can. And fortunately for me I don't listen to popular music except ancient popular music and don't run afoul of the loudness wars.

For me the proof of the pudding that I am done with vinyl comes with my regular trips to Half Price books, a great place to find CDs and even SACDs DVD As and Blu Rays. I walk right by the large vinyl displays. "The Thrill is Gone!" I have tried to make myself look through them but I want to get rid of vinyl not acquire more.

Sal and Sonik s posts make me wish I had chased Companders more aggressively but I was occupied chasing bi tri and quad amping and wanting to build a straight line tracking tone arm.

The guy that let me buy his second Oppo 205 just got a C8 Corvette. My friend who built the monster tube power supply that even scared me collects E type Jags. He spent a lot of his life working on them. They can be hard to keep lit. I would rather have the Corvette. Before he got his C8 he was showing off his C7 during an audio club meeting pre pestilence. I handled the engine compartment hood, made of graphite. It weighed nothing. He describes his C8 which is still breaking in as "stupid fast" even being careful. Better sound system. And my physicist friend built an early solid state inverter so he could put a small window air conditioner in the back of his E type coupe. Both these guys are highly acomplished engineers.
 
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Sal1950

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Pepe's Flamenco
Would this be it ?

I was collecting parts to build a straight line tracking arm when the SLP1 became available.
That would have been an amazing accomplishment. What type of bearing, air or something else?
One reason I operate two (there are other reasons that are personal) is that the one criticism of the Technics is that it does not handle records which have something on them which causes a skip.
We used to put a penny on the headshell, that would usually work. ;)
I ran my AR XB for many years, played with a different arm, can't remember which now, but my lust was always for a straight line tracker.
After I got my HK ST8 with the Rabco design straight line arm, that was the end of the vinyl line for me. With a few minor mod's it ran for a good 20 years or more in my rig. Here's one of my ebay sales pictures from 2009 with a Stanton 881S, really hated to sell it. Sort of like an old car that you grew to love but no longer had any use for. :(

IMG_1000.jpg
 

gene_stl

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I had an original Rabco Arm that my pal got. We both ran it a while but the motor made audible noises when it moved. It was designed before opto couplers came out and had a little contact to trigger the motor. It was not very impressively made. One of many audio disappointments.
Notice the heavy cabling. That affects the arm compliance and responsiveness. It also was a headache to mount.

1606849589017.png


Several friends of mine had the HK Rabco. I never could warm up to that tire system.

I was interested in building an air bearing turn table but didn't think about an air bearing arm. The straight line arm I wanted to build never really got designed. I would just snag parts I knew would come in handy like tiny ball bearing sets and materials like interesting titanium tubing and interesting woods. It was a bit of biting off more than you can chew because of insufficient access to maschine schops. One major headache of air bearings is there has to be an air compressor somewhere. One of the places where I worked (my first real job actually) they had built an air bearing for some scientific purpose and I got a chance to play with it and immediately would have liked to build a turntable system with it. Zero friction, zero bearing noise (MAYBE). But then possible vertical uncertainty.

At this point I like to quotate/paraphrase Taryl Fixes All. "It AIN'T th Space Shuttle. It's a record player!"

My first audiophile cognitive dissonance(circa 1975) that I can remember took place when I met Ivor Tiefenbrun who invented the Linn Sonndek. I was very impressed with his maschining and his claim that it had less rumble than any other table. Sounds plausible. Then I looked at that tiny little POS motor he used to drive the thing and alarms went off. Even an AR -XA had a bigger and better motor.

I think that HK table might have been built by Pioneer, they and Phase Linear had similar ones. Someone is trying to give me one and I will probably take it if we all live because I have a soft spot for straight line arms. I think it belonged to the guys dad. Figures.
 
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Sal1950

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I had an original Rabco Arm that my pal got. We both ran it a while but the motor made audible noises when it moved.
Never knew to original was a driven system along those lines.

The tires were a reliablity issue, the rubber would get funky and the drive system would act up. The final HK-ST8 model had done away with the rubber tire and just used a metal roller. I kept the roller and cylinder clean and oil free and never had a problem with it.
 

gene_stl

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I never saw nor noticed one of those. That must have happened after CDs appeared. After which like you I lost interest in vinyl. That Rabco got abandoned at my old house along with a few other pieces of classic gear. I considered selling it on ebay but would have had to write a disclaimer that it is a piece of junque and should only be bought for historical amusement not to actually play records on. Of course one could rework it too.

My favorite tonearm wire was the very fine wire that AR used.
 

kap'n krunch

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Humbly speaking, and of course I do have my ego and experience, but EVERYBODY is a different universe; I find I am in LOVE with my Technics SL-QL1 which can be found, unfortunately now for more than $250 when I bought mine (the first two about 12 years ago for less than 50 EUR and this last one this year for less than $200- ALL of them on fleabay), which I find is still quite a bargain compared to a NEW one, these Technics TT from the 80s were real high quality and made to last. I even had to do minor repairs on mine and I am not a "techie".
Found this great thread on vinylengiine.com where I could find out the manufacturing date of my TT (April 29th 1981), so my TT is almost 40 years old and still chugging along...
 

Soundfield

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these Technics TT from the 80s were real high quality and made to last.
Very true, I've an Sl-1800 which is built like a tank. I've also got a much later Sl-1210Mk2 which is still a fine turntable but you can see where they've saved a bit of money. The electronics are great too - both of mine have been modified to additionally play 78's with fully variable quartz locked speed.
 

gene_stl

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I was SORELY tempted by a wonderful and massive collection of classical music 78s that belonged to a very keen audiophile (a Manhattan project scientist) which was in a garage waiting to go to the dumpster. But I didn't have anything that would spin them and my wife would have KILLED me dead. I did wonder about digitizing them at 45 and then speeding them up with software. But it never got beyond the thought experiment phase.
 

Soundfield

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I was SORELY tempted by a wonderful and massive collection of classical music 78s that belonged to a very keen audiophile (a Manhattan project scientist) which was in a garage waiting to go to the dumpster. But I didn't have anything that would spin them and my wife would have KILLED me dead. I did wonder about digitizing them at 45 and then speeding them up with software. But it never got beyond the thought experiment phase.
I have more very early classical and operatic 78's than LPs and the ratio is tilting in the 78's favour as I declick my LPs with my Sugar Cube and record them I can release more space!
 

gene_stl

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I spent a lot of time at Sugar Cubes suite at Axpona. Very interesting pieces of gear. But too high priced for me. When you have ripped everything and want to sell it at a bargain price let me know. :rolleyes:

They keep getting better and better at cleaning up old 78s and posting them on Yooohoo Tooob. I suppose the sound quality on the very last 78s made was much improved but there are some you tubes of caruso from 1906 and 1915 before the triode was even invented. The 1915 sounds distinctly less noisy. There are also several postings of the great classical guitar genius Augustin Barrios playing his own works. And Robert Merril and Jussi Bjorling singing the Pearl Fishers duet. (might have been tape , recorded in 1951 )
 
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Soundfield

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I spent a lot of time at Sugar Cubes suite at Axpona. Very interesting pieces of gear. But too high priced for me. When you have ripped everything and want to sell it at a bargain price let me know. :rolleyes:

They keep getting better and better at cleaning up old 78s and posting them on Yooohoo Tooob. I suppose the sound quality on the very last 78s made was much improved but there are some you tubes of caruso from 1906 and 1915 before the triode was even invented. The 1915 sounds distinctly less noisy. There are also several postings of the great classical guitar genius Augustin Barrios playing his own works. And Robert Merril and Jussi Bjorling singing the Pearl Fishers duet. (might have been tape , recorded in 1951 )
I'll bear you in mind! I've lots of very early acoustic 78's from all over Europe, many of them single sided (before someone invented double sided discs!) but of course the transition to electrical recording in around 1924/5 was a transformation. Just as Caruso's voice was a perfect match to the acoustic system Bjorling's was very well matched to the electrical microphones of the day and he made some lovely records.
 

quadsearcher

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Great, great magazine. I talked to the founder way back, when I missed an issue for some reason. Wow, was he ever bent out of shape over "digital re-distribution". Many people were reachable through it. I also talked to someone at Sovtek, that was in the dark ages when production was just picking up and some tube numbers being brought back.
I still have the bumper sticker: "Use a transistor, go to Jail. It's the LAW".
 
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