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Walter Carlos Sonic Seasonings Quad?

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Q8

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Walter Carlos Sonic Seasonings Quad?

Here is an interesting one. Secret Quad? Hmm. Interesting liner notes. Wendy confirms the existance of quad masters of Sonic Seasonings and Clockwork Orange.

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EMB

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The album was released in 1972, so if Columbia or Carlos had wanted a quad release, we'd have gotten one. Whether or not it was mixed to quad but not released is something only Wendy could answer at this point.

ED :)
 

Q8

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Wendy Carlos confirms it on her website. Both this and Clockwork were mixed to quad, but we all know what an SQ hater she is :). The liner notes say it was mixed for quad. And that the presentation is something she mixed as "almost quad". So I am guessing she may have meant some sort of binaural effect. Maybe a secret QS? But the liner notes are clear that it was mixed in quad. And that the record is some incarnation of the quad presentation..
 

EMB

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As I remember, there was a Don Ellis 2-Lp set issued in Quad 8 only, and this title would surely have worked in that format, however inferior it was. I'm sure someone here will put it through the encoders and see if there is any quad effect.

ED :)
 

Q8

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I was running it on the surround Master SQ edition on both SQ and QS/Involve. I have only gotten through the Spring side, and don't know what to think. Seems to be somewhat three dimensional in both. QS seeming a tad better. The Spring piece is so subtle and quiet its hard to tell. The thunderstorm had a definate quad effect, but it probably would if it were a binaural type recording too.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Wendy Carlos was an advocate of quad, just not SQ matrix.

She got her way to, and had some of her discs cut and modulated in CD-4, not for consumer use though.CBS LABS had their own CD-4 cutter and disc mastering device used to test their SQ discs from discreet experiments.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Here's an ad touting the quad capabilities of the disc.Note that they refer to "phase" as of course SQ is a phase matrix.I'm certain they wanted this disc on their SQ stable.The ad is from 72? I believe.20150709_065339.jpg
 

Q8

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Here's an ad touting the quad capabilities of the disc.Note that they refer to "phase" as of course SQ is a phase matrix.I'm certain they wanted this disc on their SQ stable.The ad is from 72? I believe.<img src="https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19814"/>
So they wanted this on the SQ stable. Probably with just about everything Carlos made in the SQ era. Soo. It's probably not SQ. Is it a secret QS? Is it a homebrew matrix combined with binaural type recording? I may have to shoot her an email to see if she will elaborate on the technical details. There is definately quad going on here, but seems with the murky language in both the liner notes and ad, that it is not SQ. This makes me wonder about Clockwork too...
 

fizzywiggs41

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So they wanted this on the SQ stable. Probably with just about everything Carlos made in the SQ era. Soo. It's probably not SQ. Is it a secret QS? Is it a homebrew matrix combined with binaural type recording? I may have to shoot her an email to see if she will elaborate on the technical details. There is definately quad going on here, but seems with the murky language in both the liner notes and ad, that it is not SQ. This makes me wonder about Clockwork too...
Because it inferred "phase matrix", I would take it to be a type of SQ and not QS.They do not state regular, standard, or any of the REGULAR MATRICES.
NOTE THEIR QUOTES; "phase shifted spectrum" and "complex phase vectors" not SQ ENCODING but something close to SQ I would surmise.
 

Q8

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I dunno why I didn't think of this before. Just going over this old thread. Maybe it is SQ. We all know how much Wendy hated SQ. Maybe since the quad was already they used an SQ master. Maybe this was the tradeoff, they release it in SQ, but they were not allowed to come out and say it was SQ. It even fits with the way she would describe SQ. Phase shifting to make a quad-like effect. I'm starting to think it was SQ, but she did not want mention of SQ or for it to be advertised as real Quadraphonic.
 

rustyandi

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I had heard that it is in QS
So I played it and it is so boring after a while
I could not care what Matrix it is in.
 

rustyandi

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I read this on
Wendy Carlos site
And maybe they had done it in QS

RM enchanted me in a different way, though. Here was an extended plan which followed closely the simple fold-down method I have been using since the mid 60's to derive two-tracks of Stereo for final release, when most of my master mixes have been designed and realized as four channel surround sound. It was during the production of Sonic Seasonings that Rachel and I really got excited about this elegant way to collapse the soundfield into normal stereo. I've reported before, and so has Rachel in the liner notes, that at times we had to double-check what we were listening to, as the two channel reduction could often mimic true surround sound, when played back on the same setup. Anyway, RM represented the underlying pattern that our method was a subset of. Kinda cool, and the fact that at times you can be fooled like this suggests that there is more to this field that anyone has yet explored. I think it's time we tried, don't you?
 

willothewisp

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I read this on
Wendy Carlos site
And maybe they had done it in QS
decoded as QS it,s like double stereo, but in SQ it has more to it, but i would have doubts that SQ would have been used due to her hate of the system.

i think some sensible consideration needs to be done here. it is basically records on well recorded natural sound, so will contain a mass of naturally occurring phase information which might make some think it was encoded, which i seriously doubt.

i have the two cd edition where it states that the original four channel tape was, basically, mixed down to stereo for the release, as it was for the original release in 1972 , and she also mentions that there could be a release of the four channel version, which doesn't appear to have happened.

so basically if you play it through whatever you have at hand, and get an effect you like then it's fine, but quad? no. we still have to wait for that day to come.
 

fizzywiggs41

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Sonic Seasonings is indeed a bit of a boring electronic piece at times.

It's timely that Columbia Records should prepare the ad to mention "phase" the same year, or shortly after the launch of SQ discs, and Wendy has by now condemmed the use of SQ matrix, after hearing her quad disc.

But for me the disc I wanted to hear from Ms Carlos in quad would be "Clockwork Orange". Not at all boring and presumably mixed to discrete quad.
Perhaps one day very soon as those tapes do tend to dissipate, self destruct, or downright disappear.
 
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