Want FLAC surround playing and SACD surround playing and 4 channel recording to/from vintage Quad Rig.

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Kodaline

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Hello.

I am planning the expansion of my quadraphonic stereo to handle modern multi-channel stuff to a certain degree. I need advice on a certain segment.

System: Marantz 4000 quad adapter sitting in between two conventional stereos for front and rear channels via tape loops. Our relevant section is the 4 channel tape loop the adapter has for a 4 track R2R player. Via a couple DBX 200s, I can put three sources there.

Goal:
1. Play SACD in a player and get it to 4 channel analog out to go into those DBX's into the 4000
2. Play FLAC from a nearby PC and get it to 4 channel analog out to go into those DBX's into the 4000
3. Record 4 channel analog into an ADC to make digital file on PC for later playback.

Do not need:
1. A video screen.
2. Blue Ray.
3. DVD Movie (or, if I did, I'd do something temporary)
4. DVD-A (I understand there are some good dvd-a albums but I think I can get where I want with SACD.

SACD note: I understand that, due to murderous copy protection on SACD, the only way you can get surround channels out of an SACD is via on board 5.1 analog outs or HDMI. There is no way to digital out it via optical or coax, which takes out things like the Marantz DP-870 and other optical/coax in, analog surround out.

SACD conclusion: I either need a HDMI to 5.1 extractor, or a player with 7.1 analog outs.

FLAC from PC: I either need a 4 channel DAC coming from USB from the PC, or I need the SACD player to have ethernet or HDMI for an input from the PC.

4 channel recording to the PC: I need a 4 channel USB ADC, like a MOTU M4.

Conclusion: I need something like an Oppo 105, but not a 205, because I need the hdmi or ethernet, but don't need the blu ray of the 205. Or, I could use any old universal player with an HDMI extractor, but I think that can be clunky and problem-prone. I also need basically a usb-C mixer hub like the M4.

Please advise me if I am correct, or if another product will do it better. I can afford an Oppo 105, but I don't want to spend 4k on a 205. Thanks.

Edit: The Oppo 95 might do everything I need, too, it seems, for goals 1 and 2.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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SACD note: I understand that, due to murderous copy protection on SACD, the only way you can get surround channels out of an SACD is via on board 5.1 analog outs or HDMI. There is no way to digital out it via optical or coax, which takes out things like the Marantz DP-870 and other optical/coax in, analog surround out.
You cannot get multichannel (more than 2 channels) over a single optical or coax anyway.
There are little boxes that will take HDMI from a player and provide multichannel, multiple coax/AES for processing. The best is the AudioPraise VanityPro.
Conclusion: I need something like an Oppo 105, but not a 205, because I need the hdmi or ethernet, but don't need the blu ray of the 205.
The 105 does BluRay.
Edit: The Oppo 95 might do everything I need, too, it seems, for goals 1 and 2.
Probably.
 

LuvMyQuad

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I'll take a stab at some of these.

1. Play SACD in a player and get it to 4 channel analog out to go into those DBX's into the 4000
Any of the Oppos will do this. BDP-83/93/95/103/105/203/205. They are all Blu-Ray players, whether you need that capability or not. The 103/105s can also be used to rip SACD to disc, which might be of interest to you. All of them have 5.1 analog outputs that can be set to output in 4.0. Some systems can do SACD over HDMI, though you need compatible equipment which i doubt you want to get into. It is not common.

2. Play FLAC from a nearby PC and get it to 4 channel analog out to go into those DBX's into the 4000
Unless you want to be limited to AC-3 (Dolby Digital) as the only multichannel option that can be transmitted over optical, you are going to need a MCH DAC for this. Some guys use their 200 series Oppos for this as well, by connecting the PC to the Oppo's HDMI input. You can also simply load files onto something like a portable Hard Drive and connect it to the Oppo 103/105/203/205 via USB. You only get a basic navigation structure though. I think the 200 series will work with a network connection as well. Others are better able to comment on the limitations of a network connection for MCH (if any). If you already have a PC in the system, and end up with a video screen as well, you can also consider going to a real media player like JRiver, Foobar, Kodi. These will provide a vastly superior user interface.

3. Record 4 channel analog into an ADC to make digital file on PC for later playback.
A capable PC sound card or Pro gear from MOTU and others will do this.

Do not need:
1. A video screen.
2. Blue Ray.
3. DVD Movie (or, if I did, I'd do something temporary)
4. DVD-A (I understand there are some good dvd-a albums but I think I can get where I want with SACD.

You may want a video screen just for navigation purposes. I think the Oppo front panel might do all you need though, others here are likely in a better position to answer this.

I think the Blu-Ray and DVD capability is going to come along for the ride. Sounds like no need for 4k though. Any of the Oppos will also bring along DVD-A capability as well

SACD note: I understand that, due to murderous copy protection on SACD, the only way you can get surround channels out of an SACD is via on board 5.1 analog outs or HDMI. There is no way to digital out it via optical or coax, which takes out things like the Marantz DP-870 and other optical/coax in, analog surround out.

SACD conclusion: I either need a HDMI to 5.1 extractor, or a player with 7.1 analog outs.
All correct. Like I said, SACD over HDMI is somewhat rare, but it does exist. More likely is a conversion of the DSD to PCM inside the disc player and then output over HDMI. An alternate means is to rip the SACD to files using a 103/105 or a cheap Sony/Pioneer blue ray player. Then convert to FLAC.
[/QUOTE]
 

Kal Rubinson

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All correct. Like I said, SACD over HDMI is somewhat rare, but it does exist. More likely is a conversion of the DSD to PCM inside the disc player and then output over HDMI. An alternate means is to rip the SACD to files using a 103/105 or a cheap Sony/Pioneer blue ray player. Then convert to FLAC.
Sure but I do not how you can say that SACD over HDMI is rare. It has been part of the HDMI spec since v1.2 (2005).

And, yes, the most convenient way to do this, on an continuing basis, is to rip all to files and make the processing easy.
 

LuvMyQuad

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Sure but I do not how you can say that SACD over HDMI is rare. It has been part of the HDMI spec since v1.2 (2005).

I'm sure that's true. And I know its available in higher end DACs and AVPs, But in the general AVR marketplace would you say its a feature that is common? Maybe I've lost touch? It wouldn't be the first time.
 

Kal Rubinson

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I'm sure that's true. And I know its available in higher end DACs and AVPs, But in the general AVR marketplace would you say its a feature that is common? Maybe I've lost touch? It wouldn't be the first time.
In the context of your statement, I thought you were referring to the players, not to what follows. What happens after is greatly a matter of application. For DACs, being able to play SACD without conversion is a desired property. For AVPs/AVRs, which will be applying DSP that requires PCM, conversion from DSD to PCM is a necessity and can occur in the player or later.
 

Kodaline

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Kal and Luv, thanks, I'll reply in one shot.

Understood on the limitations of coax and optical. Understood on the Blu-Ray capability of the 105; not opposed to it, just not needed. Maybe just the 95.

The PC to HDMI input sounds good. I will have a screen on the PC, that is no issue; I had meant no big TV. I intend to use a real media player like listed on the PC.

Agreed on the motu and sound card.

I enjoy the ritual of discs and vinyl and tapes, so I would play SACDs off themselves.

I do not think any R2R Audiophile DAC exists that has multiple channel (>2) surround analog outs.
 

quadsearcher

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FWIW, when I got my Oppo 95 it wasn't for its BD capability as there are much cheaper players to do that for movies, and i thought i had no need for BluRay with my audio only setup. But there have been some great mixes of great titles on BD and I'm very glad it can play them. (Steven Wilson mixes). I just use a very small monitor for navigation.
 

jimfisheye

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I recommend the computer -> audio interface -> amps/speakers setup too.

You can capture and preserve analog sources in full pro quality. You get access to all formats in their fullest quality. The system is modular. You can upgrade any one piece and new formats are often just a piece of software. The all in one box AVR can really burn you with that.

Get an audio interface with the ins and outs you need. Something with only 4 channels of input and 8 - 12 channels of output isn't hard to find.

FYI, there's nothing inherently superior about a pci connecting (sound card) audio interface vs. USB, firewire, or thunderbolt connecting. If fact you usually find the more pro models with USB or thunderbolt connection nowadays.

There are frugal products that offer a lot of bang for the buck. The lowly Behringer/Midas UMC-1820 interface has 8 analog inputs and 10 analog outputs and is still on sale at Sweetwater for $280 right now. Balanced analog connections, Midas quality preamps, outputs for up to 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 surround.

Vet HDMI connecting audio interfaces carefully!!
(eg. HDMI connecting AVR)
There's a lot of 'copy protection gone wild' in HDMI connecting products. That's what I call the style of copy protection that stops playback altogether to prevent copying. Or goad you into buying another product or whatever people are up to with all that.

Computer -> thunderbolt to HDMI cable -> AVR
can be really slick and simple.

Discovering the AVR you bought has the HDMI input restricted to video only and the netbook with no thunderbolt port has an HDMI port also restricted to video only or some permutation of that is NOT slick!
 
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Kodaline

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Now that you all mention it, there's no reason why the monitor for the dedicated PC can't be hooked to a UDP as a display for menus as well.

I certainly don't want an all in one AVR. I would love an R2R DAC that could handle 4 channel analog out. I will look at those items listed.
 

jimfisheye

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It doesn't have to be all or nothing either. Add the audio interface and computer to the setup. Use what makes sense in the moment. The computer will make itself useful and possibly turn into your favorite "tape deck". You can always leave analog devices connected and monitor them live for playback if it's convenient. (That would be an AD/DA roundtrip but that's going on in some AVRs anyway. And that's an example of convenience of the moment.)

Not sure how expensive of DAC one might require. I think the merely entry level pro offerings are extremely impressive. I like my Apogee's I've had for a while now. Finding an interface with multiple channels of ADC and DAC is easy enough whatever your price range.
 

Kodaline

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R2R apparently sounds better, though I have yet to confirm it.

Oh, this won't be the only thing going, by far.
 

MidiMagic

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'70s quad was simple by comparison.

The same stereo turntable worked for all systems (CD-4 might need a new turntable).

Discrete quadraphonic tape needed new players.

Matrix quad didn't need anything new except a decoder and two more channels of amplification.

The discretists killed off the original.

Even '80s and '90s still needed only stereo players, a decoder, and more amplifiers. Even TV was matrix. Everything worked together.

And no copy protection!

Then the discretists took over and everything went wacky. Multiple formats, multiple coding systems, and copy protection. A great way to ruin anything.
 

LB-V

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I recommend the computer -> audio interface -> amps/speakers setup too
I've been trying to get my head wrapped around how to do this, glad I took a look at the thread. Actually relatively simple....thank you for laying that out. I've been playing vinyl for a long time, but recently kind of stumbled onto Apple music, and having every album I own (well some are not available), at my fingertips, plus access to so much more. Problem is, I have an Android device, so I can't take advantage of the Dolby Audio that is available. The Surround Master does its job, but I would like to have the Dolby...and access to all other formats as well.
 

Sal1950

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Then the discretists took over and everything went wacky. Multiple formats, multiple coding systems, and copy protection. A great way to ruin anything.
Totally true but just the way of the world today.
Out with friends yesterday and needed to make a call. Borrowed my friends smart phone and couldn't even begin to figure out how to make a simple phone call. Grrrrr.
You need a 3 day class to learn how to flush the toilet
 

gene_stl

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US $499 I want one.
 
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SeeMoreDigital

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...There are little boxes that will take HDMI from a player and provide multichannel, multiple coax/AES for processing. The best is the AudioPraise VanityPro.
If something like the VanityPro was created to decode and transcode the likes of Atmos, DTS-X and/or Auro to analogue, I'd be interested...
 
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