War Greatest Hits?

[Eggplant]

This disc released in 1976 by UA was listed in Larry Clifton's Quad Inc as a single-inventory QS disc.

I own it, and frankly I think there's no way it's quad.

Aside from the lack of any indication on the sleeve, disc or jacket, there's this: the mixes sound identical to the stereo ones. Although the War quad mixes I remember as being good, most quad mixes are so sloppy -- and distinctly, undesirably different -- that they stick it like a tricycle at a Harley rally. In addition, many of the cuts are the single versions. It's very rare for quad greatest hits collections to contain single versions, which would have to be recreated from the quad masters.

My question is, why does anyone think this record is quad?

 

[larryclifton]

Since I assembled QUAD Incorporated in 1979, I went back to my 3x5 index card for this title. I show two sources. The first is the June 1978 Schwann-1 catalog, which I checked again and found does identify the LP of War's "Greatest Hits" as quad. When Schwann listed an album as quad, it represented information supplied by the record company.

The secord source is something I recorded as "SC catalog 771, winter supplement". I don't recall what this was. If it rings a bell with someone else involved with quad then, let me know. Probably it will come to me in a couple of days. In all likelihood I have the original source and can double check it.

I have the album, so I played it. My Vario-Matrix decoder is not operating on all cylinders, but I listened to it decoded by Dolby Pro Logic II, which some say decodes QS very well. I have to admit that the quad effects aren't terribly impressive. Although, the lead vocals seem to stay firmly in the center front and the background vocals spread out across all channels.

The United Artists number on the War LP is UA-LA648-G. United Artists UA-LA653-G contains Paul Anka's "The Painter" and obviously was released about the same time. I have it, too, and it actually has the QS logo on the jacket and record label.

I remembered thinking that the the quad mix for "The Painter" was pretty unimpressive on my first listen many years ago. Nevertheless, to verify this I played it through the Dolby Pro Logic II decoder. The quad effects are about as tame as for the War LP (in fact, on some tracks practically nothing comes out of the rear channels), but this one is unambiguously identified as QS, so it appears that the United Artists recording engineers did not go for effects that quadraphiles would admire.

So there's your evidence. It does not prove that War's "Greatest Hits" is quad, but it at least points in that direction.

Larry

 

[Eggplant]

Thanks for your info, Larry. The SS community has always been appreciative of, if not awed by, your thoroughness in documenting quad releases.

In response to your post, I too dug out my copy and listened. This just after receiving, and auditioning, a DTS conversion of The World is a Ghetto Q8, which contains several of the songs on GH.

I'm very familiar with the stereo mixes of most War hits, being a bigger fan now than I ever was back in the 70's. Like you, I decoded GH using the Dolby PLII setting. It was immediately obvious that all the songs I auditioned were the single edits of the stereo mixes later released on CD. As just one example, the conga fill that comes just before the vocals is mixed dead center, unlike the quad mix where it is isolated RF (with insufficient level and reverb, typical of sloppy quad mixes).

I was 95% certain before, but now I can state that the record is absolutely, unequivocally, NOT quadraphonic. I sure wish I were wrong.

I certainly believe it was listed as a single-inventory release, but that's not how the finished product turned out. Frankly, given the technical issues outlined in my previous post regarding creating single versions of previous quad mixes (through editing the quad masters or dubbing a third generation), I can't see how it would even have been feasible. Perhaps they figured this out too late?

 

[rustyandi]

Thanks for your info, Larry. The SS community has always been appreciative of, if not awed by, your thoroughness in documenting quad releases.

In response to your post, I too dug out my copy and listened. This just after receiving, and auditioning, a DTS conversion of The World is a Ghetto Q8, which contains several of the songs on GH.

I'm very familiar with the stereo mixes of most War hits, being a bigger fan now than I ever was back in the 70's. Like you, I decoded GH using the Dolby PLII setting. It was immediately obvious that all the songs I auditioned were the single edits of the stereo mixes later released on CD. As just one example, the conga fill that comes just before the vocals is mixed dead center, unlike the quad mix where it is isolated RF (with insufficient level and reverb, typical of sloppy quad mixes).
\


I was 95% certain before, but now I can state that the record is absolutely, unequivocally, NOT quadraphonic. I sure wish I were wrong.

I certainly believe it was listed as a single-inventory release, but that's not how the finished product turned out. Frankly, given the technical issues outlined in my previous post regarding creating single versions of previous quad mixes (through editing the quad masters or dubbing a third generation), I can't see how it would even have been feasible. Perhaps they figured this out too late?

The WAR greatest hits LP
I player it again last night
With the laser player & QSD1
I watched it on the scope & listen
No it is not Quad but the decoder is so good that it does not seem to mater
I watched for a separate channel in the rear but when there was
a dominant sound in the rear it was pulled from the front
you can see it on the scope
there is only one track Side 1 track 1 All Day Music
that I am not sure of as it does not seem to pull from the front
there is a chorus that is in the rear and comes in and out without
any blend from the front
But if Sansui would use there Decoder with modern chips etc.
I don't think we would miss 5.1

over the years i have played with all the types of decoders and have come to the conclusion that all you need for Stereo is the
QSD1 and Ambiosonic decoders

The best to show of the QSD1
Eurythmics
Be Yourself Tonight CD
BALL & CHAIN track
at the end there is a chorus that moves in a circle around the listener
The QSD1 is the only decoder that can move sound from L/rear to R/rear
This track also gives great demo with C/surround & Pro 11 decoders

If anyone knows of a better track let me know?

Ambiosonic
Gives the best if you want the hall effect
it is very smooth blend
Ron

 

[sspsandy]

I feel the same way about the Tate II and Prologic II (I have a Fosgate RFQ5000 in my car). While I can appreciate 5.1 SACDs and DVD-As, playing any stereo recording through the advanced matrix processors provides a surround experience that is most satisfying, and depending on how discrete the 5.1 digital mix is, even better. Point in case, Fleetwood Mac's Say You Will lp is somewhat flat in the 5.1 mix, play the stereo layer through the Tate or PLII and it really opens it up.

 

[larryclifton]

The WAR greatest hits LP
I player it again last night
With the laser player & QSD1
I watched it on the scope & listen
No it is not Quad ...

Ron -

Do you have UA's other quad LP release, Paul Anka/The Painter? If so, what does the scope tell you about it? Unlike War's Greatest Hits, it has the "QS" logo on the jacket and record label. Even so, to my ear it sounds as unconvincing as a quad recording as the War LP. Which leads me to wonder if both are quad but with an engineering defect that spoils the intended effect.

Larry

 

[rustyandi]

Ron -

Do you have UA's other quad LP release, Paul Anka/The Painter? If so, what does the scope tell you about it? Unlike War's Greatest Hits, it has the "QS" logo on the jacket and record label. Even so, to my ear it sounds as unconvincing as a quad recording as the War LP. Which leads me to wonder if both are quad but with an engineering defect that spoils the intended effect.

Larry

Well I looked up my list and found the Lp
I had not played it for many Years
I as pleasantly surprised I like almost all the songs
I must be getting old as I don't think I liked it when I brought it
Anyway I played it with the QSD1 and Laser player
It is QS Quad although they use mainly strings or Sync. sound in rear
That makes it sound less discrete but there are a few
places in some tracks that there is some near discrete rears
Side 2 track 3 I'll help you
But it has a good overall surround sound effect nice voice delay in rear
I would be happy to call it quad
Ron