Warner Music Dolby Atmos Upmixing (Unacceptable!)

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fredblue

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ok, I found something. On instagram there is a mixer named Alan J Han (alanjhan) and he's mixed a lot of what is on @MrSmithers list. Carly Simon, George Benson, Drifters, Starship, Coltrane, and lots and lots of the stuff on the hiphop page. Tons. Gucci Mane, Ty Dolla, BIG, Wiz, etc. - I haven't found a real mix yet. All have quiet ambience in the center channel and lead vocals everywhere.
Looks like he started last fall and has been releasing stuff every couple of days.
I got curious because he mixed the new Goo Goo Dolls album (2022 - would certainly have access to tracks) but it is also an upmix. It's also Warner. He must have some contact at Warner who is throwing him all this crap.
What do you think is best method to get this guy to stop?
*edit - worth nothing not everything is an upmix. I found Anitta mixes that are real.

Han's list from his linkedin page:
"Mix engineer specialized in Mixing for Dolby Atmos / Apple Spatial Audio. Mixed over 700 Tracks.

Credits include: Justin Bieber, Drake, The Weeknd, Kendrick Lamar, Wiz Khalifa, Kevin Gates, Quavo, Kodak Black, Bruno Mars, Doja Cat, Future, Gucci Mane, Meek Mill, Gunna, Post Malone, Lil Baby, Cleveland Orchestra, Snoop Dogg, Alok, Nicki Minaj, Neil Young, Why Don't We, Halsey, Ty Dolla $ign, Camila Cabello, Jhené Aiko, Goo Goo Dolls, 21 Savage, Charlotte Lawrence, Fredo Santana, Roddy Ricch, J Balvin, Migos, Lil Pump, Charlotte Lawrence, Missy Elliott, The Notorious B.I.G., Blake Shelton, Rick Ross, Mustard, Travis Scott, P. Diddy, Jeremih, Kanye West, Jamie Foxx, T. Pain, Johnny Orlando, FL Dusa, Navé Monjo, Lil Uzi Vert, Young Dolph, Young Boy Never Broke Again, BirdMan, logic, Earl Sweatshirt, Macklemore, Richie Valens, Bazzi, Papa Roach, Steve Aoki, Saweetie, Marshmello, Trey Songz, Portugal The Man, Santa Fe Klan, Gera MX, CKay, Normani, Sada Baby, Bette Midler, Keith Sweat, Carly Simon, Tank, A Boogie wit da Hoodie, Aretha Franklin, Omar Apollo, Adina Howard, Junior H, Kid Rock, Marc Seguí, Plies, Micro Tdh, Ali Gatie, S1mba, Mike WiLL Made-It, Warren Zeiders, Laura Branigan, Revolver Cannabis, Justin Quiles, Mike Jones, Ben E. King, George Benson, John Coltrane, The Drifters, Los Tucanes de Tijuana, Shoreline Mafia, Sante Fe Klan, Tay Keith, Christian Nodal, Lauren Jauregui, Blue Swede, R-Chord, Sadie Jean, John Michael Montgomery, Bread, Wale, Lupe Fiasco, Sickotoy, Minelli, INNA, Sean Paul, Portugal The Man, Sam Hunt, Mario Winans, The Drifters, Machine Gun Kelly, X Ambassadors, Bebe Rexha, Otis Redding, Omah Lay, Christopher Cross, Starship, Cosculluela, Izzy La Reina, Cupid, Amenazzy, The Young Rascals, Myke Towers, Joyner Lucas, Chris Brown, The Meters, Jaheim, Piso 21, E-40, Larry Hernández, Zion & Lennox, Ovy in The Drums, Raveena, Rubi Rose, SAINt JHN, Twista, Jenna Raine, Shordie Shordie, Breland and many more."

@humprof I'll reach out to Mike on instagram right now.
WOW!!! 🤯

700 tracks.. its worse than i thought 😭
 

harync

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WOW!!! 🤯

700 tracks.. its worse than i thought 😭
When Dolby announced that thousands of tracks were going to be mixed in Atmos, this was the fear of a lot of people.

I wonder how much of this is budget or artist driven? On the Pure Audio Atmos Panel, Steve Genewick and Andrew Scheps talked about artists that blow the entire production budget on the stereo mix when they would do better have Atmos and stereo mixes created simultaneously.

I'd guess the better mixes are with newer artists who have an interest in Atmos and/or the budget to pay for the time it takes to make a good mix.

In the case of the catalog titles, maybe WEA is just telling Alan J Han and others to mix them as quickly and cheaply as possible unless the artist shows an interest (creatively or monetarily).
 

fredblue

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Whoa. Popshop, you're a regular Poirot!

Hostage negotiator tactics: be concerned, inquisitive, non-confrontational. If we get in the guy's face or hint that we're out to pillory him, he'll shut down, dig in, stonewall, or run.
he needs to do the right thing and stop, or be stopped and now before its too late and Atmos gets a reputation for being a total load of fake nonsense, which we know it absolutely is not!

really, a paid professional shouldn't be boasting about what he's doing, he should be ashamed of himself.

why? well because he isn't actually mixing anything!

he is running 2-channel tracks, mostly Stereo and seemingly hundreds of them, through an upmixing process and calling what comes out the other end, Atmos.

i view mixing music as an art in and of itself and in particular Surround Music mixing takes real skill as well as feel and that's why the best in the business, the likes of Steven Wilson, Elliot Scheiner, Bob Clearmountain, Greg Penny, Alan Parsons (et al) get true recognition from people here because what they do is a true artform. a mix can make or break a track. there isn't a Grammy for Immersive mixing just for fun.

now here we have this ham-fisted bun vendor appear outta bumfuck nowhere, churning out hundreds of tracks with some cookie-cutter process, hoping the listening public will be too uninitiated to notice and in the process i feel making a mockery of genuine Surround Music mixing and those who appreciate it.

the stench of Silverline still hangs in the air decades later.

this arsehole could single-handedly ruin Spatial Audio altogether.

UGH. LIVID. 😡
 

LennonCobain

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Quick Google search turns up a website, a LinkedIn page, and a YouTube channel, among other things. Describes himself as an Immersive Audio Engineer who specializes in mixing for Dolby Atmos & Apple Spatial Audio. Also "Director of 3D Audio" for Audible Reality, which "develops [AI-driven] software and technology that enables the creation of 3D audio content for music, communications, and related media technologies." Hm.

It's not clear that he's responsible for all of the upmixed WEA pop singles that we're ticked about, but his list of credits includes many of those names, for sure. And yet it also includes plenty of artists for whom we've heard average to good mixes--and some with outstanding mixes, like Lake Street Dive and Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet. And his YT page includes a two-part interview with George Massenburg, who seems to have been one of his teachers at McGill University. So...who knows what's going on? Maybe @sjcorne actually should reach out for an interview? (Or, since Han is based in Toronto, maybe @steelydave could arrange a tête-à- tête!)

If Alan J. Han is an “immersive audio engineer” then I will begin claiming to be hung like a porn star.
 

fredblue

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Quick Google search turns up a website, a LinkedIn page, and a YouTube channel, among other things. Describes himself as an Immersive Audio Engineer who specializes in mixing for Dolby Atmos & Apple Spatial Audio. Also "Director of 3D Audio" for Audible Reality, which "develops [AI-driven] software and technology that enables the creation of 3D audio content for music, communications, and related media technologies." Hm.

It's not clear that he's responsible for all of the upmixed WEA pop singles that we're ticked about, but his list of credits includes many of those names, for sure. And yet it also includes plenty of artists for whom we've heard average to good mixes--and some with outstanding mixes, like Lake Street Dive and Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet. And his YT page includes a two-part interview with George Massenburg, who seems to have been one of his teachers at McGill University. So...who knows what's going on? Maybe @sjcorne actually should reach out for an interview? (Or, since Han is based in Toronto, maybe @steelydave could arrange a tête-à- tête!)

WTF!! 🤯🤦‍♀️

i bet someone the ilk of George Massenburg would be thoroughly unimpressed with what his former pupil's upto. wow i'm furious!! 😡
 

fredblue

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Let's not sugar coat anything, time is important.
If Warner is getting per stream type payments, then it's obviously a get richer quick money grab, quality and customers be damned, which makes me believe Mr. Han is complicit.
sharpening my pitchfork as we speak! 😈

ok, i don't have a pitchfork but i do have a pitcher! 😋😅

cheers! 🍻🥳
 

LennonCobain

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I don’t have Instagram but he does accept DMs for Atmos mix inquiries. And boy do we have some questions!

Maybe @sjcorne can arrange an interview. :)
 

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humprof

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Whoa--hold on, @fredblue & @J. PUPSTER! I'm as pissed as anyone about the upmixed rubbish, and the fact that Han also works for a company whose main product is on-the-fly AI upmixing makes me very suspicious. But he's been a working professional for at least five years, and Seoul (& Toronto) ain't "bumfuck nowhere." (Although the allusion to "Terror of the Autons" is apt!) So I want to get the facts first and find out what's going on here. Until they're all in, I'm more inclined to direct my rage at Warners and Apple and Dolby than at a gun-for-hire.
 
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J. PUPSTER

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Whoa--hold on, @fredblue & @J. PUPSTER! I'm as pissed as anyone about the upmixed rubbish, and the fact that Han also works for a company whose main product is on-the-fly AI upmixing makes me very suspicious. But he's been a working professional for at least five years, and Seoul (& Toronto) ain't "bumfuck nowhere." (Although the allusion to "Terror of the Autons" is apt!) So I want to get the facts first and find out what's going on here. Until they're all in, I'm more inclined to direct my rage and Warners and Apple than at a gun-for-hire.
Fair point (although I know nothing of Dr. Who trivia)

I'll just head back to my old Quad LPs for comfort; harkening back to the days when Men were Men and Quad was misunderstood... ;)
 
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I am as pissed about this as any of you. I think we need to be looking at this in both short and long term to get anywhere.

As a long term suggestion could we make a list over mixes to avoid? A searchable/sortable list with artist, song title, record label and a link to Apple/Tidal. If we maintained a such a list that are easily accessable through a single URL/link, it would become a reference to audio people. A small warning at the top explaining what an upmix is and why QQ is informing about this. It needs a catchy name that is easy to understand. This is what we promote whenever we can among music and sound interested people on the internet and elsewhere. "Verified as upmix by QQ members".

We should also have a list number two with highly recommended mixes so people can compare themselves. "Higly recommend by QQ members".
The lists should point to each other so that you can easily find both. Verification as upmix needs some rules. Highly recommended could be done e.g. by voting with likes. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dynamic top 100 singles and album list?

I am sure this would make an impression at Apple, with engineers and musicians as thing progresses. Someone needs to remind Apple every now and then of their promise concerning upmixes.

Is it achievable?
 

LennonCobain

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I am as pissed about this as any of you. I think we need to be looking at this in both short and long term to get anywhere.

As a long term suggestion could we make a list over mixes to avoid? A searchable/sortable list with artist, song title, record label and a link to Apple/Tidal. If we maintained a such a list that are easily accessable through a single URL/link, it would become a reference to audio people. A small warning at the top explaining what an upmix is and why QQ is informing about this. It needs a catchy name that is easy to understand. This is what we promote whenever we can among music and sound interested people on the internet and elsewhere. "Verified as upmix by QQ members".

We should also have a list number two with highly recommended mixes so people can compare themselves. "Higly recommend by QQ members".
The lists should point to each other so that you can easily find both. Verification as upmix needs some rules. Highly recommended could be done e.g. by voting with likes. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dynamic top 100 singles and album list?

I am sure this would make an impression at Apple, with engineers and musicians as thing progresses. Someone needs to remind Apple every now and then of their promise concerning upmixes.

Is it achievable?
The issue with such a list is the fluid nature of streaming. Tracks can be pulled down and/or replaced at anytime without notification.
 
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The issue with such a list is the fluid nature of streaming. Tracks can be pulled down and/or replaced at anytime without notification.
Hence the link to Apple/Tidal. If it's dead, it might come back. (Apple still at one point in time had the nerve to release it). If it has a new link/id, it can be checked and possibly erased from the list. (And all is forgiven)
 

HomerJAU

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We should also have a list number two with highly recommended mixes so people can compare themselves. "Higly recommend by QQ members".
The lists should point to each other so that you can easily find both. Verification as upmix needs some rules. Highly recommended could be done e.g. by voting with likes. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dynamic top 100 singles and album list?

A new ‘spatial’ poll would allow that, but the work involved in adding new albums would a horendous. There’s up to 50 new albums per week released and current QQ poll system requires too much manual maintenance.
 

fredblue

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Whoa--hold on, @fredblue & @J. PUPSTER! I'm as pissed as anyone about the upmixed rubbish, and the fact that Han also works for a company whose main product is on-the-fly AI upmixing makes me very suspicious. But he's been a working professional for at least five years, and Seoul (& Toronto) ain't "bumfuck nowhere." (Although the allusion to "Terror of the Autons" is apt!) So I want to get the facts first and find out what's going on here. Until they're all in, I'm more inclined to direct my rage at Warners and Apple and Dolby than at a gun-for-hire.
on-the-fly AI upmixing you say..? 🧐

now where's my FLYSWAT...!!! 😈
 

harync

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WTF!! 🤯🤦‍♀️

i bet someone the ilk of George Massenburg would be thoroughly unimpressed with what his former pupil's upto. wow i'm furious!! 😡
No Kidding. When I went to the youtube video with Alan Han and George Massenburg, another video was recommended:

Here is a George Massenberg quote from that video: "What the requirement is for immersive mixing is that we get back to doing good mixes, high quality mixes. Not just pressing buttons on plugins, but mixing where you grab a fader. This thing where you use plugins is bullsh**."
 
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