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What does this "dust up" have to do with QQ and audio?

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The Bushmaster

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Now that's a dumb question. I believe there are many American Chinese restaurants around. Hell! Even Ava has one. Personally I prefer sweet & sour pork.
 

Doug G.

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Globalism was well underway by the seventies. When I was in purchasing at Telex, we bought screws/springs from a Chicago company and when I would try to expedite an order, they would have excuses like, "they're at the plater" or, "they're being hardened" or "they're being stress relieved."

We knew, however, they were importing them from Asia.

Doug
 

J. PUPSTER

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One potential scenario could ultimately affect many retirement funds here in the U. S. A.

Apple’s sales in China are about 15% of its overall revenue. If China is pushed far enough it could easily take the hit (from loss of manufacturing parts for Apple) and ban Apple sales in China. Many retirement funds have Apple in their portfolios and many of those investments are in Mutual Funds, Closed End Funds and Exchange Traded Funds. These various funds have holdings that are index replications like SPY for the S&P 500, and QQQ for the Nasdaq 100. Those indexes are generally “market cap weighted” which means the larger corporations have a larger percentage presence in the fund, Apple of course being one of the largest. If Apple would suddenly lose 15% of it's revenue and the potential for the additional growth factor of China, the markets’ reaction would be severe. Apple also has substantial influence over other tech companies either directly (making parts for Apple, most likely in China also) and indirectly for just sympathetic market reactions. China wants of course to bolster its own smart phone companies i.e. Huawei and oppo ( yes that oppo) and could just see this as another move of its “long game” resulting in an overall global tech presence. China is no longer just a purely Communist country as it relates to business/manufacturing/commerce; they have adopted a more quasi-capitalism approach with allowing many of its companies to be sort of semi-autonomous. There are even ETF ‘s for that like CXSE -WisdomTree’s China ex-State-Owned Enterprises Fund.

China is the world's largest manufacturing economy and exporter of goods. It is also the world's fastest-growing consumer market and second-largest importer of goods. GDP growth rates around the world.
I believe this all goes way beyond just politics, but is primarily about our shift from an industrial nation to being more service oriented. Combined with China's emergence as a major industrial power, the USA needs to wake up and re-imagine itself going forward; with investments in education and re-training employees that can only be implemented from the businesses themselves (but perhaps with government assistance.) I almost feel the USA is in a situation now like Japan was after W.W. II when it had to implement some of this kind of re-imaging. I remember an early second car I owned in the early 80's; it was a 1968 Datsun pickup (a real POS.) It was like driving a lawn mower with a tin can shell. Well Japan's manufacturing took huge leaps in design, engineering, quality control and production, and is now a major well respected car maker (along with many other products.) All this also reminds me of what an NBA coach will say in an interview when asked how they will approach a playoff series with a response something like:
"We have no control over how the other team handles their business, we just need to take care of our business and play a smart aggressive game."

I believe we need more training/education in engineering and of course Robotics, which will be another major disruptor in our workforce; with things like Fabrication/Manufacturing line Robots, Automated CNC Milling and 3D printing. There is just too much low wage competition of the more menial work that we cannot compete with from other emerging countries.

It's not my intention to bash China in these discussions or to advocate for them either. But China is a rising industrial Dragon that is not within our control. Perhaps oppo left the USA Blu-ray player market due to these long term strategies, foreseeing the death of physical media music/movies and getting a head start in other areas. But China makes so much of our electronics and other day to day items; that they have lots of dry powder to work with when it comes to tit for tat responses.
 

jefe1

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Hey Pupster that was a good well thought out post you made above.
I agree we have to reorient out economy make corrections and train americans for the jobs we need here.
No country can allow themselves to become completely dependent on one source one country for our needs especially one that does not share our values and is no friend to us.

What I would add to your post is that china grew with the help of large scale theft of our ideas and research and development and continues to do that.

Agree with Bushmaster belt tightening is needed by us and long term planning. It does not mean that other countries are our enemies but that we need to look to our own national interests.
 

J. PUPSTER

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Hey Pupster that was a good well thought out post you made above.
I agree we have to reorient out economy make corrections and train americans for the jobs we need here.
No country can allow themselves to become completely dependent on one source one country for our needs especially one that does not share our values and is no friend to us.

What I would add to your post is that china grew with the help of large scale theft of our ideas and research and development and continues to do that.
Thank you, yes, I was contemplating all that as well (IP theft), and was going to add some thoughts about that aspect at a later time, you beat me to it ;)
 

Sal1950

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Agree with Bushmaster belt tightening is needed by us and long term planning. It does not mean that other countries are our enemies but that we need to look to our own national interests.
AMEN
They're not our enemies, but we can no longer allow them to take advantage of us either, that has gone on for too long.
If we do allow ourselves to become ever weaker and even less self dependant we could wake up one morning to find we do have a REAL enemy.

Peace Through Strength as Pres Reagan used to say. ;)
 

Circular Vibes

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As someone whose partner is of Chinese heritage I take offense to suggesting all Chinese people are bad because they are not of American (or Canadian) heritage. If you want to suggest the Chinese government is bad, then okay with me. The Chinese people don't have control of their government like the free world does. All people work to pay for housing and food and other necessities and our needs are all the same.
 

Green

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I am listening to this while reading the thread and smoking this.
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Circular Vibes

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You are correct. Let me rephrase that. The chinese communist party hate us and want to destroy free people and dominate the world.

That better?
I appreciate the rewording Bushmaster and agree with that statement. To be clear, I wasn't directing it at any specific member but this thread was making me very uncomfortable. Words can sometimes say more than we realise until after someone else reads or hears them.
 

J. PUPSTER

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Perhaps we should be asking ourselves also:
Are we adult and smart enough, to keep this little scrum (thread) from getting scrubbed?
 

quadsearcher

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When I got my first Oppo (980) I searched the web, found out they were more known for their phone business. I wanted one, this was 10 years ago, but I found some forum thread somewhere with well over 100 posts about converting the phone to work here, language and all. I'm surprised they still haven't broken into the US phone market. Seemed like a good product.
 

Quadly McQuadmeister

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Pure collectivism fails just as often and as spectacularly as pure Capitalism does. There is no moral high ground for either in its laboratory state. In the U.S., the Boom-Bust cycle swings (pre-Federal Reserve) were far worse and far more frequent before the '29 crash than anything we've had since. (But, there are forces at work who keep trying to "correct" that "failure", lol.) To tie it into surround media context (there isn't any in the scene...but...lol...) There's a good Jeremy Irons soliloquy in "Margin Call" that addresses this inconvenient fact: (
)

All China did was take our Hubris, refine, and scale it up and throw it back at us. Which is all Japan did previously. They took us at our word when we said we had the best system pretty much "EVAH". (Well, we sort of do and we sort of don't.)

We ARE their best customers and they NEED us. Previously-in the "pre-Internet" era, there was widespread price-fixing in the marketplace (by supply-siders) and unfortunately for us that is now re-establishing itself (by DOMESTIC actors, not foreign) to nobody's (certainly not MY) benefit.

Ever wondered WHY you can't afford a Mac amplifier? Here's a clue, it's not because they're significantly better than certain alternatives. But there is truth in the fact you couldn't have had any of the economies of technological innovation and scaling without their initial (followed by Phase Linear/Bob Carver) "high water mark" targets (along with the other iconic founders of audio) for others to be inspired by and at which to plink away...

Every Human aspiration incorporates a certain amount of residual hypocrisy. What actually appears to work is an alloy of economic (not political-they're not the same thing but they are related) ideologies. I.E., to a greater or lesser degree that changes on the fly over time. Perhaps regulated Capitalism tempered by a certain (equally) regulated DEMOCRATIC Socialism that keeps wholesale Human misery held to a minimum. But as Irons' screenwriters and character point out, there is no nulling it out completely. I'm as big a Star Trek fan as anybody (TOS, anyway...with an honorable mention for TNG and Enterprise) but we'd have to solve both the "supply-side" and consumer side hoarding tendencies of Eight (plus in that conjectural future) Billion Human Beings. It sort of reminds me of that Fagen lyric from "Century's End" (even though in that context it was about one of the big drivers of material acquisition and not acquisition itself): "Nobody's holding out for Heaven....it's not for creatures here below...". YMMV. In fact, owing to cussed obstinance, it's pretty much guaranteed to do so... : - )
 
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