What *not* to buy

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jdmack

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One day, when I'm wealthy and have no debts, I'll invest in a good audio system. In the mean time, I've been getting a taste of surround by making some inexpensive purchases. I got my RCA STAV-3970 amplifer at a pawn shop for under $100. And I bought a JVC SX-XSW670 5.1 speaker system for $99.
Let me tell you something. This system will fatigue your ears so fast and so hard that it feels like someone has been using a plunger on your ear canal after a few minutes of listening. I suspect that the main problem is the speakers.
Alas, "cheap" is my primary concern these days, but better speakers is on my wish list for the future!

J. D.
 
One day, when I'm wealthy and have no debts, I'll invest in a good audio system. In the mean time, I've been getting a taste of surround by making some inexpensive purchases. I got my RCA STAV-3970 amplifer at a pawn shop for under $100. And I bought a JVC SX-XSW670 5.1 speaker system for $99.
Let me tell you something. This system will fatigue your ears so fast and so hard that it feels like someone has been using a plunger on your ear canal after a few minutes of listening. I suspect that the main problem is the speakers.
Alas, "cheap" is my primary concern these days, but better speakers is on my wish list for the future!

J. D.

anything ANYTHING with less than .0 is crap! 0. any number will do the trick. Your speakers should cost more than any other unit in any system. THD is everything as well is speakers ceap/HT in a "box"?? it's your ears!!
 
Maybe you should try some Q8 -> DTS conversions, they'll have a lot less top end to assault your ears with. Unfortunately, unless you have lots of money it's all a compromise. But, I hope that you get some enjoyment from your system.
 
Yep, such tiny satellites with their 3 inch "woofers" don't always treat the music well. And to me, similar small models even ones from companies like Klipsch and Boston Acoustics (I own Bostons myself) - simply because of the laws of physics - just plain cannot reproduce music properly, subwoofer or no subwoofer.

Depending on your own priorities, IMO I would either:

1) start haunting garage sales/resale shops/etc for speakers, but speakers with at least a 5" woofer. For me, 6.5" is the minimum to match well with a sub crossed over at the standard 80Hz.

Used speakers in general are usually very cheap (receivers and CD players too), because many people are tossing them in favor of one of those plastic iPod all-in-one docking gizmos. :(

And you can use speakers now considered monsters by many younger people i.e. old-skool floorstanders with 10" and larger woofers. You wouldn't believe the crazy deals I've seen out there because so many people think technology has passed these models by & they "can't" sound as good as a new speaker. Tell that to the guys at AudioKarma.org!!

2) To save even more money, use a 4.0 configuration.

To generate the surround soundfield, all you actually need are the front mains & the 2 rear channels. The center and the sub are only *enhancements* to that soundfield (and a sub can definitely make a big difference but isn't completely necessary as long as your front mains are large enough, since after reprogramming the receiver, they will be responsible for reproducing the sub's bass).

FYI: if you want something new, four of these entry-level speakers ought to make a listenable* basic system for many rooms:

Pioneer 3-way bookshelfs with 8" woofer PartsExpress, a company I've dealt with several times with no problems, sells them for only $80 a pair --> "big" speakers like these aren't very marketable anymore.

I own the predecessors to these Pioneers and they are bit on the bright side but nothing my receiver's treble knob can't tame; and their bass output is surprising for such a low-priced speaker (Pioneer builds all their own drivers, so no surprise about the price/performance ratio).

There's cheap AND good sounding gear out there & special ways to set it up to maximise its potential, together resulting in a surprisingly good sounding system - you just have to dig around harder for that gear & do some extra research on its set up.

* listenable: in say, a 16ft X 20ft room (hmmm :)) their overall sound should sound full/rich and reach high sound levels, but low bass in extreme action movies and hip-hop/pop music won't shake the walls.
 
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I agree with FD. An inexpensive 4.0 system is way better that an inexpensive 5.1 .

And 4.0s can be bought used.
 
One day, when I'm wealthy and have no debts, I'll invest in a good audio system. In the mean time, I've been getting a taste of surround by making some inexpensive purchases. I got my RCA STAV-3970 amplifer at a pawn shop for under $100. And I bought a JVC SX-XSW670 5.1 speaker system for $99.
Let me tell you something. This system will fatigue your ears so fast and so hard that it feels like someone has been using a plunger on your ear canal after a few minutes of listening. I suspect that the main problem is the speakers.
Alas, "cheap" is my primary concern these days, but better speakers is on my wish list for the future!

J. D.

Changing speakers will certainly change the sound, but are you sure the shrillness is not an acoustic property of your room?
 
Last night, I cracked open my new copy of Porcupine Tree's "Deadwing," popped it into my DVD-Audio player, and bemoaned to myself once again about the shrill sound of my system (speakers, room acoustics, who knows?). Then, I had an inspiration. I grabbed three hand towels and threw them over the front three speakers. Would you believe it? This worked perfectly! I have at last found a simple way to reduce the high frequency output of my system so that it much more listenable.

[I will be selling these towels in Stereophile for $75.00 a piece in the near future ; ) ]

J. D.
 
"Special Baffle Towels"

We could make some with a QQ logo on them and get rich! :D
 
One word: speakers.

Throughout decades of innovation, huge price drops and soaring specs, speakers are the one thing that really hasn't changed. You still need good speakers. They're not cheap. Never were, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. They have to do the real work -- moving air, in the physical world, and that means they have to be built with real materials that perform.

Buy your receiver at Costco if you have to (you can get something decent). Get your 14- or 12-gauge wire and plugs from Radio Shack instead of spending hundreds on Monster cable (like I did). Until they change the laws of physics, cable is cable. But speakers? Top priority. Used is fine, but BEWARE -- you have to really know what you're buying. Check every inch, every driver with a fine-tooth comb, and make sure you know the age and condition. They don't last anywhere near forever. With no sub, you'll really need at least an 8" woofer size -- 10" for any good-sized room.

Here's more bad news -- you really need at least four matched ones. No cheapies in the rear. For music you can dump the center channel and sub for now, but you'll need four full-range babies for today's surround sound.
 
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I grabbed three hand towels and threw them over the front three speakers. Would you believe it? This worked perfectly! I have at last found a simple way to reduce the high frequency output of my system so that it much more listenable.


Putting tissue over the tweeters of the Yamaha NS10's (the most popular studio monitor of the '80's and '90's) used to be common practice in rock and pop studios for the very same reason.

It can measure very strange, though!

http://bobhodas.com/tissue.html
 
With no sub, you'll really need at least an 8" woofer size -- 10" for any good-sized room.

Or, multiple smaller bass drivers that add together to move enough air. Smaller cones also have the advantage of being easier/quicker to move. Also, smaller cones are stiffer as the distances are shorter, both qualities that help to produce tighter bass - generally.
 
Or, multiple smaller bass drivers that add together to move enough air. Smaller cones also have the advantage of being easier/quicker to move. Also, smaller cones are stiffer as the distances are shorter, both qualities that help to produce tighter bass - generally.

Do you remember Greateful Dead "Wall of Sound" ? :smokin

19740323_0930.preview.jpg
 
Or, multiple smaller bass drivers that add together to move enough air. Smaller cones also have the advantage of being easier/quicker to move. Also, smaller cones are stiffer as the distances are shorter, both qualities that help to produce tighter bass - generally.

This is going way off the original topic here, but that statement reminds me of something. I have friends that like to tape the shows that they attend. Afterwards, they give the recordings to me to transfer to CD for them. Sometimes, more than one person will tape the same show from different points in the room. I've found that if I overlay the two recordings, the overall bass sound improves significantly. It's as if the two small microphones act like one giant microphone when combined.

J. D.
 
Buy your receiver at Costco if you have to (you can get something decent). Get your 14- or 12-gauge wire and plugs from Radio Shack instead of spending hundreds on Monster cable (like I did).

I miss Radio Shack. The real one not the pretender it is today.

That's where I got my first "real" stereo. An STA-250 with Quatravox (imitation 4 channel sound). It was advertised as 88w x 2 or 44w x 4. I first got some small speakers and finally added the Nova-9 speakers when it was I think 40-50% off.

That was the great thing about Radio Shack they would eventually steeply discount with fantastic sales. I always looked forward and timed my purchases and life by the Radio Shack Sales seasons.

The system still holds great memories. With the Quatravox, it put out some nice simulated surround sound with 4 speakers. There was no stinkin' decimal like 4.1 or 5.1 back then! I think the Nova's had a 12 or 15 inch woofer that supplied enough bass without the need for a subwoofer to be impressive. Great for listening to records with special effects like Firesign Theater, Congress of Wonders and even music like Axis Bold as Love with the space ship. And I remember with Tangerine Dream's Phaedra -- my friend sitting between the front speakers jumped to look behind the couch to see if I had a speaker back there!

Ebay can have some pretty good deals there too. They usually have a few quad or even some old Realistic Quatravox receivers up for bid.
 
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