And then came Primus
Why do new albums not hold up over time compared to 'classic' albums?
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Combination of Old Fart Syndrome and Survivorship Bias, plus a little bit of The Sixties Were Special and White People Discovered Black Music.
Your idea of classic albums isn't going to be a 20 year old's idea of classic albums. Not now, not when they turn 50. "Classic" isn't a fixed reference point and never has been. See also the weird, meaningless phrase "classical music" - divorced of the context of who considered it "classical" and in relation to what, it sort of ceases to mean anything specific.
Also, time has a way of making it clearer what is actually good, and scrubbing the acres of dreck that sat next to those good albums from everyone's collective memory.
Also, the 1960s were a time of fights for social equality, and the booming of social liberalism as a large postwar generation reached maturity at the same time, plus the final/ultimate absorbtion of African-American musical mileus (blues, jazz, rock, etc) into basically all white/popular music.
The latter point is I think especially under-recognized - black people being "allowed" (or more accurately, "forced" by their white fans and younger white acolytes) into popular music essentially created/inspired everyone from Dylan to The Beatles to Cream to The Rolling Stones to Led Zeppelin, etc etc.
Your idea of classic albums isn't going to be a 20 year old's idea of classic albums. Not now, not when they turn 50. "Classic" isn't a fixed reference point and never has been. See also the weird, meaningless phrase "classical music" - divorced of the context of who considered it "classical" and in relation to what, it sort of ceases to mean anything specific.
Also, time has a way of making it clearer what is actually good, and scrubbing the acres of dreck that sat next to those good albums from everyone's collective memory.
Also, the 1960s were a time of fights for social equality, and the booming of social liberalism as a large postwar generation reached maturity at the same time, plus the final/ultimate absorbtion of African-American musical mileus (blues, jazz, rock, etc) into basically all white/popular music.
The latter point is I think especially under-recognized - black people being "allowed" (or more accurately, "forced" by their white fans and younger white acolytes) into popular music essentially created/inspired everyone from Dylan to The Beatles to Cream to The Rolling Stones to Led Zeppelin, etc etc.
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nadalex
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Ditto. We always love what we listened to as teenagers. For example, I will eternally love New York Hardcore bands. And the bands that make music for teenagers generally do not age well. These bands are rewarded by the American music industry, and we all know their names. Radio stations are set-up to play their records for decades.
IMHO, music in the 60's for the most part were pop songs, where you could remember the vocal hook from, and can still today! In the 70's, what we consider "classic rock", was much more album based, and the "hook was instead more commonly a guitar "lick" or intro. (Look how many millennials know our much because of "Guitar Hero" video game.) Since albums were longer than singles, artists got to express their art through solos, and I remember many hours not only listening to their solos, but looking at the whole package, the cover art, the gatefold cover with maybe lyrics and maybe snippets about the band members. Better yet, listening to "album rock" stations like WNEW in New York to hear a whole album side of a band that wasn't even released yet. But to this day, very young people can still recognize those licks or intros. As music progressed in the 80's and more so in the 90's and beyond, music has become less and less about "hook" driven music, and less and less about that classic rock album experience of cover art, etc. that people I feel are less invested in the artist per se and more about the individual songs again.I have bought a number of recent (using the term loosely) recordings by classic rock acts from bygone years. While I consider these new efforts to be very good, I find that I'm done with them after a few listens and revert to listening to their 'classic' recordings. This is despite higher sound quality of the new recordings, Atmos, etc. I can speculate that the reasons for this could be:
1) Old Fart Syndrome: New material just doesn't stick in the brain anymore.*
2) Newness wears off: There is a degree of infatuation because it is new material from a beloved act; but it fades rather quickly.
3) The new stuff simply isn't as good as the old stuff: The artist's creative peak is long gone...along with his / her singing ability.
4) I spend too much time writing this sort of crap on this forum rather than going back to listen to the stuff.
Thoughts?
* I once read that people are done with new music once they turn 39. Hmmmmmm. That was a loooooooooong time ago.
There were also a much, much smaller group of artists that make up the genre of what we call Classic Rock. You either waited for the next Black Sabbath, or the next Deep Purple, or Cream, or Creedence, or Clapton, or Yes, or ELP or ELO, or Zeppelin, etc.album to come out, but there were definitely a much more finite group or people that you were waiting their next effort to come out, and hopefully it was as good or better than their last. Back in the 70's if I didn't like an artist at that time, I probably have at least heard of them. Today, there a millions of artists, literally, that I have never, nor will ever hear of in my lifetime, either from streaming sites, and social media sites etc.
Unfortunately, even when artists have wanted to make music more like they used to, classic hook driven music, that has much recognizable melodies, very often they say that the record companies have told them it doesn't fit in with the current era, and if you want to keep your contract then make it sound like 'todays" music, which is always very transient, for that particular moment in time. Nothing classic about that. I (we) long for the era when we can remember not only who the hell they are, but can remember the music because it was very melodic, even hard rock, and very hook driven.
I wish one record company would go these old bands and say, hey, make us a new classic rock album, that has melodies and guitar riffs that will be remembered for generations. Unfortunately, I think that era has come and gone.
I consider The Tipping Point an outlier of epic proportions. I just listened to it again this afternoon and enjoyed it immensely. However, I only made it through the first eight tracks. This was not because I didn't like what I was hearing, but rather due to yet another symptom of Old Fart Syndrome...the need for more and more frequent nature breaks.
You know, I just thought of another factor along these same lines. LPs had two sides. You had to flip the record over to hear the other side. This often led to listening to just one side of an album and then changing to a record side from another artist...especially true if one had a record changer. So each album side was a de facto separate work.
I remember talking with the fellows at the frat house about the greatness of side one of On The Threshold Of A Dream. This was six years after the album had been released. I also remember a lighthearted argument among two buddies when one of them put on side two of Sticky Fingers. One dude complained that he should have put on the "good side."
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What, AR, NO Zone Two set up in your kimode?
Very true ....about the 'good side' of the LPs...so much for saving the best for LAST although a LOT of those classic 60/70's discs did have 2 good sides ...in some cases GREAT!
And the 80 minute CD did add a LOT of unnecessary filler to MOST albums. And MORE true today!
There was also a lot of forgiveness from us when our old fart bands would make a sub-par record!! Beatles and Paul Macca fan that I am, I have always forgiven him for the fact that he didn’t make a Beatles quality record until Band on the Run (or after for that matter
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Which is what made the songwriting partnership of Lennon~McCartney so special. Macca tended to be a bit surgary whereas Lennon was more acrid in nature and they reined in their tendencies while working together. I do like RAM and McCartney II but compared to the Fab Four output, a bit saccharine!There was also a lot of forgiveness from us when our old fart bands would make a sub-par record!! Beatles and Paul Macca fan that I am, I have always forgiven him for the fact that he didn’t make a Beatles quality record until Band on the Run (or after for that matter
Thanks for posting this trip down memory lane!
A bit of tension and competition mixed in with collaboration can yield some fantastic synergistic results.
barfle
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I don’t believe Elvis Presley ever wrote a note, but he definitely had musical talent. Carol King is a passable singer, but an awesome songwriting talent. Elton John takes Bernie Taupin’s poetry and puts it to (usually) excellent music.
I’ve known people who could fix anything but never build something new, and I’ve known people who could design, but god forbid they would ever construct anything.
True, there are those who can write, arrange, sing, play strings and winds, produce, edit, and market, but rarely do they excell in all fields.
Then you have people like me. I can build my own designs but cannot build something designed by others. I have great difficulty following instructions. Mrs. Surround will confirm this.
barfle
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Today, the outlets for music are a lot different than when I was “growing up” (50s through 70s). So being exposed to what the producers want to push isn’t a tinny radio playing a noisy AM station. And we don’t tend to discuss our latest music discoveries with our peers like we did.
When we approach adulthood, our immediate interests change. We become responsible for things like having a job and paying rent, and while we still enjoy many of the things we always did, we tend to tone down a lot of the frills, and that includes the latest tunes.
I never understood how Dick Clark could even stand half of the stuff he was promoting.
When we approach adulthood, our immediate interests change. We become responsible for things like having a job and paying rent, and while we still enjoy many of the things we always did, we tend to tone down a lot of the frills, and that includes the latest tunes.
I never understood how Dick Clark could even stand half of the stuff he was promoting.
barfle
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I started out not being very good at building Heathkits. Then I started modifying them.
MidiMagic
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I think it is mostly #3 on your list.I have bought a number of recent (using the term loosely) recordings by classic rock acts from bygone years. While I consider these new efforts to be very good, I find that I'm done with them after a few listens and revert to listening to their 'classic' recordings. This is despite higher sound quality of the new recordings, Atmos, etc. I can speculate that the reasons for this could be:
1) Old Fart Syndrome: New material just doesn't stick in the brain anymore.*
2) Newness wears off: There is a degree of infatuation because it is new material from a beloved act; but it fades rather quickly.
3) The new stuff simply isn't as good as the old stuff: The artist's creative peak is long gone...along with his / her singing ability.
4) I spend too much time writing this sort of crap on this forum rather than going back to listen to the stuff.
Thoughts?
* I once read that people are done with new music once they turn 39. Hmmmmmm. That was a loooooooooong time ago.
There were several artists who I followed and collected whatever they had.
1. I like and HAVE everything these artists ever did:
- The Tokens
- Tommy James and the Shondells
- Tommy Roe
- Petula Clark
- The Monkees (but Head is boring)
- Herman's Hermits
- The Royal Guardsmen
- ABBA (including the new one)
- The Irish Rovers
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
- Lobo
- MECO
- Stars On
- Perry - Kingsley
- Saragosa Band
- Chromium (aka Chrome - Disco band)
2. I have every early recording by these artists and then they changed their music:
- Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass
- Neil Diamond
- Steppenwolf
- Three Dog Night
- Simon and Garfunkel
3. I have many recordings by these artists:
- Everly Brothers
- Beach Boys
- Beatles
- Dolly Parton
- The Highwaymen
- Yrde
- The Three Suns
- The Browns
- Peter Paul and Mary
- Johnny Cash
4. I am still collecting new recordings by these artists (longer than 20 years):
- Newsboys
- Audio Adrenaline
- Casting Crowns
There are a few cases where I bought 1 or 2 records that were very special:
- Iron Butterfly - In a Gadda de Vida
- Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells, Tubular bells 2
- Enoch Light - Permissive Polyphonics
Who are Yrde? I Googled it and got nothing about a musical act. Are you just testing me to see if I actually read your post?
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I believe Elvis has co song writing credit on "love me tender".
John Fogerty, Sheryl Crow and Paul Mc Cathy, Stevie Wonder could do everything but its rare. As for me I can barely walk and fart at the same time.
It's an acquired skill, Chucky.
I've always preferred the singer/songwriter types. Can you imagine how far Bob Dylan would have gotten had he been just a singer?
Paul McCathy? Should I seek out this artists material?
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Mc Cartney................I also could nevr spelIt's an acquired skill, Chucky.
I've always preferred the singer/songwriter types. Can you imagine how far Bob Dylan would have gotten had he been just a singer?
Paul McCathy? Should I seek out this artists material?
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