Why is everyone so jazzed about ATMOS?

[MagnumX]

I'd be a lot more jazzed about Atmos... if they f'in released it!!!

Hiding the decoder in hardware to force new equipment sales looks desperate.

Hiding it in hardware? It's an encoded format for god's sake. Does your computer have at least 9.1 discrete analog outputs on it that it can decode Atmos in "software" ? HDMI has its analog limits as well. You're going to nerd hardware period to do it. Otherwise, it has backwards compatible 7.1 output for older systems.

Pushing it like a marketing buzz word with products like soundbars that can't even do mono very well makes it look like they're hiding some performance issues or something. (Or there's BS upmixes or scratch mixes to hide.)

Frankly, you sound bitter. There's good and bad stereo and 5.1 mixes out there too. THX did admittedly turn its brand into milquetoast by putting the label on everything and everything to make a buck and it does seem like Dolby is similarly trying to push the name. On the other hand, the average consumer doesn't know Atmos from a hole in the ground so name recognition is important and if some crappy sound bars and headphone mapping lads to more music made with Atmos that works on real Atmos systems with 9-34 channels, then it's probably a small price to pay.

New products are well and good. Cheapness products arguable have their place. They pointedly aren't releasing this for anyone that already owns a capable system and has used a computer based media system for the last 20 years.

What's your definition of a "capable" system? Mine has 17.1 (11.1.6) channels of PSB speakers rated for +/- 1.5dB frequency response on-axis. In practice, I get in room +/- 3dB response over nearly the entire audible bandwidth range with +/- 2.5dB in the 20Hz to 200Hz range at the MLP. Atmos sounds fantastic with a great mix.

Buying many used or demo speakers online, the overall cost wasn't as bad as one might think. Probably around $8500 for all the speakers including the subwoofer (and not all at once since I started with a 6.1 PSB system 11 years earlier. Likewise, I reused amplifiers as well to power that many channels). I've seen people spend more than that on a single pair of boutique (i.e. Stereophile recommended) brand speakers to questionable results for the dollar spent.

I'm using some expansion methods to go beyond the 11.1 AVR, but a Monoprice HTP-1 for $4k would give me 15.1 discrete over the same arrangement (using Pro Logic processing to do the last remaining two speakers "near discrete"; You use two Pro Logic processors to extract a "center channel" between two other pairs, which I'm using now for "Top Middle" between front/rear heights.

But if one doesn't want to invest in Atmos, one can continue to use Atmos soundtracks with 5.1 to 7.1 playback.

 

[jimfisheye]

Does your computer have at least 9.1 discrete analog outputs on it that it can decode Atmos in "software" ?

Yep. I mentioned earlier I have plenty of DAC channels available. 10 are Apogee. 16 MOTU. And there's more. That's the rub here when you already have such gear. You kind of don't want to buy hardware you don't need to get access to the software. The AVRs with that kind of DAC and analog stage quality and the theater install audio interfaces are pricey. They're being greedy and this stinks!

Yeah, I'm kind of ornery. I'm actually interested. I have the gear. I have nice gear. I really don't have the money to duplicate it and I damn sure shouldn't have to. This is another example of the disposable culture crap running wild. I won't buy computers with hard drives soldered in either.

 

[Cheezmo]

Because, surround has gone mainstream. Kind of destroys our niche, which is awkward. Waiting for quad mixes to be released in Atmos with just the 4 channels active, etc. We'll see if that ever happens.

But for now, cancelled my Mr. Big: Lean Into It SACD preorder because I can listen to it in Atmos now. Not saying I approve, but things are changing.

 

[MagnumX]

Yep. I mentioned earlier I have plenty of DAC channels available. 10 are Apogee.

Maybe if you hadn't spent a ton of cash on overpriced DACs that offer no discernable audible improvement you could afford Atmos? I know. It's totally awesome sounding and worth every penny.

Sorry, just telling it like it is from my perspective. You and some others are angry there's a new format, even though not a soul in the entire world is making you buy it. It's 100% backwards compatible and so there's zero reason to be angry about anything. If anything, people with 7.1 systems are getting a ton of 7.1 compatible soundtracks and music that barely existed Pre-Atmos. I'd call that a win either way. So why be angry with Dolby or others that support Atmos?

. And there's more. That's the rub here when you already have such gear. You kind of don't want to buy hardware you don't need to get access to the software. The AVRs with that kind of DAC and analog stage quality and the theater install audio interfaces are pricey. They're being greedy and this stinks!

Greedy? You demand a level of gear that's sadly in the stratosphere and are upset about it. Stick with gear that's sensible and you won't have the problem. Surely, you must have known that when you bought it?

Yeah, I'm kind of ornery. I'm actually interested. I have the gear. I have nice gear. I really don't have the money to duplicate it and I damn sure shouldn't have to. This is another example of the disposable culture crap running wild. I won't buy computers with hard drives soldered in either.

You have audiophile gear. You had to know it'd be expensive to replace. My AVR was 11 years old when I decided to upgrade. I think I got some use out of it. I'm still using it as a six-channel amplifier in 7.1 input mode so it wasn't disposed of.

Hey, I get it. I wasn't totally immune to the sounds of audiophile allure. My Carver separates system with Carver Amazing ribbons with custom active crossovers and dual 350W amps isn't crazy expensive (or "audiophile" by Stereophile standards), but still sitting upstairs doing two channel playback. I don't have expectations of it doing Atmos, though. I built a separate home theater system downstairs.

I'm sure you and some others hate my comments because you believe in that gear making huge differences in sound. So be happy with what you have and enjoy it.

Like I said, ALL Atmos recordings are 100% backwards compatible right down to 2.0. Do instruments really need to fly overhead anyway? I'd say no they don't and there's no good reason for it other than sounding awesome.

But it sounds like you want Atmos. You're just upset it's not free. Most people don't have your equipment demands, though.

An 11.1 AVR/AVP can be had for under $1000 this time of year brand new (i.e. D&M products go on sale as the new models are released, typically around August. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the hardware.

But it sounds like you want Trinnov level hardware ($30k for 32 channels) which literally is a computer mated to high-end hardware, but you want it in software for a song. Good luck with that. The rest of us have to make do with what we can afford.

 

[jimfisheye]

Haha, yeah I suppose it would be easier if I was good with listening to cheapo gear. I'd just buy a shitbar. But... I wouldn't be really hearing much of those Atmos mixes. Or even 5.1 at all. Or even stereo at all.

I think I paid around $800 for the Apogee Rosetta around 2010. I think the two MOTU 828mk3 interfaces were $600 each around 2008. I sniped this stuff up used. It lets me record and mix. Keep in mind that the more budget units back 15 to 20 years ago had AD and DA that were not as good as the budget models today.

Starting over today, I might just grab a Brhringer/Midas X32 and call it a day.

I don't think I overpaid. The products in question will run for life with modest maintenance. That's part of what went into the purchase decisions.

The only options for getting my hands on the Atmos decoder codec involve $2000 - $4000 worth of DAC channel purchase with either a higher end AVR or a professional audio interface aimed at theater install.

Yeah, if I had cheap tastes and was fine with nosebleed seat experience, I'd be good. But I also wouldn't really be listening to surround music! Fidelity always comes first. I'll listen to stereo before cheap surround.

Nice try though! You working for Dolby or one of the AVR makers they're in cahoots with?

 

[dabl]

Because, surround has gone mainstream. Kind of destroys our niche, which is awkward. Waiting for quad mixes to be released in Atmos with just the 4 channels active, etc. We'll see if that ever happens.

There are several vintage quad mixes released in Sony's competition to Dolby Atmos, the '360 Reality Audio' format which uses the MPEG-H codec, and those are available on Tidal and Amazon.

Just one example is Billy Joel's "Turnstiles" which, per a member here, I believe has never been out in a discrete version

The catch is the only hardware decoders currently available in the USA are embedded in useless devices like phones and dinky little speakers like the Amazon Echo. In theory European versions of AVRs like the AVR-X4500 I have, have the MPEG-H decoder but I've yet to hear any reports of anybody anywhere actually attempting to decode Tidal or Amazon streaming 360 Reality Audio on those and/or real multi-speaker playback systems.

The good news is if you're a super geek, you can grab the files from Tidal and decode the 4 channel audio in the MPEG-H file to a format that can be played back on common players like Kodi. You have to want 'em pretty bad though because that whole process is not a walk in the park.

There are many questions about why some surround mixes are only available in this arguably lame/unnecessary competitive audio format (360) but clearly there are some politics behind it. Sony has a long history with these kinds of format wars. Beta vs VHS (obviously they lost that one) and Blu-Ray vs HD DVD (Sony won). I can't see Sony winning the Atmos vs 360 Audio war, Atmos is too far ahead.

 

[jimfisheye]

Sony is synonymous with 'format war'!

See, that's the problem here. More effort being put into R&D around preventing people from listening to a competing format by reducing fidelity or straight up disabling playback. These actions with Atmos suggest the marketing department believe they are in a desperate situation and they really don't want anyone with actual professional grade audio systems listening to the mixes available right now.

I really think it's more obliviousness to sound and music in general though. "I don't know what this 'surround sound' you geeks are talking about is. Hey can we put this Atmoss thingy in a cheap boombox speaker to sell at Worst Purchase? Put the codec in the firmware and don't release it and then people will think their old stuff just broke. Or that it's just so different they need something new." And the shitty mixes and masterings are just shitty lazy work. Probably no wild conspiracy to hide poor work and get away with selling it. It just makes it look that way.

Ultimately we still win here. Maybe not today. But in the near future when this format gets 'liberated' the few of us with hi-fi systems will have a handful of really cool wild surround mixes to listen to and a format to mix to. The people listening to their clock radios and soundbars will drift with the currents like always.

 

[MagnumX]

Haha, yeah I suppose it would be easier if I was good with listening to cheapo gear. I'd just buy a shitbar. But... I wouldn't be really hearing much of those Atmos mixes. Or even 5.1 at all. Or even stereo at all.

There's a hell of a difference between a "shitbar" and a moderately priced AVR running your choice of speakers.

I think I paid around $800 for the Apogee Rosetta around 2010. I think the two MOTU 828mk3 interfaces were $600 each around 2008. I sniped this stuff up used. It lets me record and mix. Keep in mind that the more budget units back 15 to 20 years ago had AD and DA that were not as good as the budget models today.

And you can buy used Atmos gear as well. It came out clear back in 2014. Like I said, you can get a brand new D&M AVR for around $800-1200 (depending on brand/model) this time of year (typically August to September). Or is there supposed to be something wrong with Denon or Marantz?

The only options for getting my hands on the Atmos decoder codec involve $2000 - $4000 worth of DAC channel purchase with either a higher end AVR or a professional audio interface aimed at theater install.

Well, if your idea of doing Atmos only involves brand names like Storm, Trinnov, Lyngdorf, etc., I guess you will have to do without. It sounds like you want $10k-$30k equipment for $800.

Yeah, if I had cheap tastes and was fine with nosebleed seat experience, I'd be good. But I also wouldn't really be listening to surround music! Fidelity always comes first. I'll listen to stereo before cheap surround.

Again, D&M at that those priced points ($2k-3k retail on sale for $800-1200) are not "cheap tastes". They're excellent equipment options for 50% off or more. But if you have to do the audiophile thing, well.... I'm not even sure the high-end brands advertise as audiophile gear anymore as the term audiophile has come to mean over time a believer of snake-oil products.

Nice try though! You working for Dolby or one of the AVR makers they're in cahoots with?

And a conspiracy guy.... I could ask you if you're related to John Atkinson.

 

[furui_suterioo]

Will there ever be/is there already a sound card which will let me play Atmos to 4.0 from windows 10 laptop to my vintage amplifiers? Then I will be hoppy

 

[Audiowannabee]

Well i told a bunch of people at a work meeting how apple spatial music truly cannot be done over headphones or shiity soundbars n they truly NEED a 5.1.4 speaker array system...lets hope they were paying attention

 

[MagnumX]

Well i told a bunch of people at a work meeting how apple spatial music truly cannot be done over headphones or shiity soundbars n they truly NEED a 5.1.4 speaker array system...lets hope they were paying attention

Um, "Apple Spatial Audio" IS a headphone format. That's its entire purpose. You're probably thinking of "Dolby Atmos".

Apple's format is designed to give more spacious/directed sound from multi-channel sources like Dolby Atmos and even regular 5.1 and 7.1 formats to their headphones (and presumably others that support it) so it's not just flat left/right in the head audio.

Dolby has its own headphone spatializer for Atmos as well, I believe and DTS has pre-processed soundtracks with some movies under the DTS:X Headphone label that convert soundtracks to a mire binaural like experience.

There is nothing wrong with that, IMO. Any improvement to headphone playback should be welcome and if that enables more Atmos albums to be made/remixed, so much the better.

 

[GOS]

 

[ar surround]

I try to fire up my Atmos / Auro 3D rig this afternoon. Wish me luck! I may need help for you folks.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I try to fire up my Atmos / Auro 3D rig this afternoon. Wish me luck! I may need help for you folks.

Choo Chooo, let's go for a ride- from this ... to this

 

[ssully]

Haha, yeah I suppose it would be easier if I was good with listening to cheapo gear. I'd just buy a shitbar.

I see here a leap from 'cheapo gear' right to 'soundbar'. As if there's nothing else? False choice. The 'else' encompasses what most of us use, I'd bet.

I'd also bet your setup is the peculiar outlier.

Nice try though! You working for Dolby or one of the AVR makers they're in cahoots with?

Weak.

 

[temporaryhuman]

Well i told a bunch of people at a work meeting how apple spatial music truly cannot be done over headphones or shiity soundbars n they truly NEED a 5.1.4 speaker array system...lets hope they were paying attention

lol

I feel the same.

 

[Sal1950]

I try to fire up my Atmos / Auro 3D rig this afternoon. Wish me luck! I may need help for you folks.

Sooooooooooooo ???

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

The real question is when will I get a software Atmos solution? Right now, you need dedicated hardware to decode Atmos and route it to an arbitrary number of channels.

 

[temporaryhuman]

The real question is when will I get a software Atmos solution? Right now, you need dedicated hardware to decode Atmos and route it to an arbitrary number of channels.

MKV file via VLC media player?

 

[ar surround]

I try to fire up my Atmos / Auro 3D rig this afternoon. Wish me luck! I may need help for you folks.

Sooooooooooooo ???

Problems...More channels = more problems. Right @LuvMyQuad ? More later.