Why isn't surround sound more popular with Audiophiles?

[Kal Rubinson]

Audiophiles, I mean the ones who go to extremes to supposedly make their system better, are just plain nuts. Have you seen that Athens Audiophile Club documentary? The guy who wouldn’t let his speaker wires hit the ground and the guy who went on about power being 50% of the sound....”230, 230, 230, everyone knows that.”

Agreed.

I equate those types like a classical music snob who will only listen to classical music.

Nonsense. What does an aesthetic choice in music have to do with silly and obsessive electrical putterings?

Fine if that is what you like but don’t use it as a weapon to seem intellectually superior.

That is a different story. It has nothing to do with the genre and it is just as distasteful to criticize classical fans for being old farts.

I like 2 channel and 4 channel. It’s all good.

Fine. Me, too. End of story.

 

[markshan]

Audiophiles, I mean the ones who go to extremes to supposedly make their system better, are just plain nuts.

I equate those types like a classical music snob who will only listen to classical music. Fine if that is what you like but don’t use it as a weapon to seem intellectually superior.

So you equate having a musical preference to believing in voodoo? Seems nuts to me.

 

[markshan]

That is a different story. It has nothing to do with the genre and it is just as distasteful to criticize classical fans for being old farts.

Well, there is about four centuries of classical as opposed to a few decades of rock, and popular music by definition has far more support on the radio and in the media, so I think classical fans at minimum have to work harder. For someone to not even consider those facts strikes me as thoughtless. I try to be well rounded and I know which is the most difficult for me.

 

[doity]

Well, there is about four centuries of classical as opposed to a few decades of rock, and popular music by definition has far more support on the radio and in the media, so I think classical fans at minimum have to work harder. For someone to not even consider those facts strikes me as thoughtless. I try to be well rounded and I know which is the most difficult for me.

Dude chill . I love classical music myself and have been a listener since my teens and most of the music I listen to today is classically influenced type of music. I was using it is an example in that serious audiophiles might look down their nose at us guys still lusting after 50 year old mid-fi Quadraphonic gear. And that stereo is ‘The Only Way’ kind of thing. That’s all. The same way that some people heavily into classical music are purists and mock other music types. Oh yes......they are out there.

 

[markshan]

Dude chill . I love classical music myself and have been a listener since my teens and most of the music I listen to today is classically influenced type of music. I was using it is an example in that serious audiophiles might look down their nose at us guys still lusting after 50 year old mid-fi Quadraphonic gear. And that stereo is ‘The Only Way’ kind of thing. That’s all. The same way that some people heavily into classical music are purists and mock other music types. Oh yes......they are out there.

I'm chill. I'm not sure where that comment comes from.

 

[jimfisheye]

Sit a ways back in the room and take in a performance. You can clearly hear the music and all the notes being played. Sit right up front and now you can tell what brand of rosin the 2nd violinist uses! (I mean from hearing the quality of sound from it. Not just seeing it sitting there!) **

If the performance is something you're interested in, a closer view/listen is very desirable.

To me, "audiophile"-ness has simply been about having the good seats!
You kind of ARE hearing some hidden details many other people are missing. Just like the stuff you catch from the front row live.

Hearing a recording you've been familiar with for a long time but suddenly magically from closer better seats is a joy! (ie. Getting a batter copy of an album. Or upgrading your system.) It's like getting to travel back in time and picking better seats this time!

I think even the guys who jumped off the deep end in the back pages of those audiophile magazines are on a quest to hear something interesting. Even if it's just to get into the club right? I heard the thing! I'm one of you! Or something... Some of them may have lost sight of the forest for the trees of course but they're still on a quest to hear something I think.

Jeeze though, what kind of a quest are you on and what exactly do you think changed in the sound when you got those ceramic speaker wire stands? (Or insert your favorite silly product example.)

Or approaching that from the other direction:
Let's assume everything claimed is on point factual with some audiophile system. You have some million dollar treated listening room and 'money no object' speakers and all the other bits and your nose is firmly plastered to the ceiling.

So... There are like, 7 albums in the world that meet your standards to listen to?
That's a lot of kit for just a handful of the best recordings known to man!


** If that example is too snobby...
"Sit right up front and now you can tell what brand of heroin Nick Turner is using!"

 

[markshan]

There are brands of heroin?

 

[doity]

I'm chill. I'm not sure where that comment comes from.

I just didnt think that you were getting my analogy between audiophile purists and classical purists that’s all. The majority of self-professed audiophiles with systems in the six figures likey look down on Surround. Whether that is 7.1, 5.1, 4 channel, etc. It is just an entrenched attitude that is part of the whole audiophile culture. I am sure that a lot of them might like it to some degree but they will never base their systems around it. That is something for the “masses”. Only that it isn’t so that just leaves a few of us and that’s fine.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Sit a ways back in the room and take in a performance. You can clearly hear the music and all the notes being played. Sit right up front and now you can tell what brand of rosin the 2nd violinist uses! (I mean from hearing the quality of sound from it. Not just seeing it sitting there!) **

** If that example is too snobby...
"Sit right up front and now you can tell what brand of heroin Nick Turner is using!"

Not sure how Nik Turner from Hawkwind made his way into this discussion, but I'll just leave this here.

He signed his autobiography for me at show five years ago.
First time I saw him with Hawkwind mid-70s touring Warrior On The Edge, he was in his frog costume.
Had a laugh when I asked him to autograph this page.

 

[MagnumX]

Audiophiles use it as an excuse to not spend more money so they can spend $10,000.00 on speaker cables and $100.00 on audiophile-grade fuses. Oh, and wooden outlet covers.

Doug

Don't forget CD Transport Mats (with separate transport and $10k+ DACs), Green CD pens to outline the CDs and the all powerful magic Shakti Stones to get the fengh shue!

I believe audiophile grade condoms came out recently as well. Apparently, if you don't wear a proper raincoat while listening to music, you're not hearing the hidden dark passages that must be probed very carefully. Yes, here's a photo of one. Wear this and music will sound very different indeed! All your regular non-audiophile friends will be jealous!

 

[MagnumX]

I remember seeing an advertisement for B & W Nautilus speakers, back in the '80's. They cost a fortune, even back then. Only people who have a Salvador Dali Mae West Lips Sofa in their living room, would kit out their audiophile rack with something so ridiculous. Not even Brian Eno would do it.

Dude, those were AWESOME looking speakers. If I could get a pair for free by buying a lips couch, I'd be buying one. I also enjoyed those lips sofa in my recent acquisition of "Feu - Live at the Crazy Horse in Paris" in 3D, particularly the hot French girl draping over it while singing dirty lyrics in French.

BTW, the Nautilus speakers came out in 1993, not the '80s.

 

[jimfisheye]

Not sure how Nik Turner from Hawkwind made his way into this discussion...

I guess I was trying to come up with the opposite of a classical music example.

 

[ProgRules]

To me, "audiophile"-ness has simply been about having the good seats!

IME the best sound is not the front row, but back near the sound board, since that's what the mixer hears and tries to maximize.

 

[jimfisheye]

IME the best sound is not the front row, but back near the sound board, since that's what the mixer hears and tries to maximize.

Exactly! That's my seat. Or right in front of it if I'm not working.

Sometimes I say "front row" more as a visual example of what I'm trying to talk about. Not sure if I wrote that above but if I did that's why.

 

[ProgRules]

Exactly! That's my seat. Or right in front of it if I'm not working.

Sometimes I say "front row" more as a visual example of what I'm trying to talk about. Not sure if I wrote that above but if I did that's why.

Guess I took your metaphor too literally.

 

[quadsearcher]

Before I had heard multichannel sound I had seen quad records next to audiophile records in a couple stores. I wondered why they were associated there. Years later when I heard quad for the first time I realized it made perfect sense. Both are an attempt to hear more.
And both can help one hear more detail in the music.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, there is about four centuries of classical as opposed to a few decades of rock, and popular music by definition has far more support on the radio and in the media, so I think classical fans at minimum have to work harder. For someone to not even consider those facts strikes me as thoughtless. I try to be well rounded and I know which is the most difficult for me.

I am afraid that I do not understand your point or its relevance.

I'm chill. I'm not sure where that comment comes from.

It comes from this:
"I equate those types like a classical music snob who will only listen to classical music. Fine if that is what you like but don’t use it as a weapon to seem intellectually superior. "
You are relating an obnoxious behavior to classical listeners. I am saying that there are musical snobs in all genres and that they are equally obnoxious.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Before I had heard multichannel sound I had seen quad records next to audiophile records in a couple stores. I wondered why they were associated there.

Because record store clerks are famous for their sophisticated audio knowledge.
(posted by a former record store clerk)

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

Back when I was doing live sound, I was never content to sit behind the board all night. I was constantly out wandering around to see how things sounded in other parts of the seating area. Of course in some most of our less-sophisticated venues, the console location was stuck back in the corner somewhere where it was difficult to hear or even see anything properly.

Also, those were usually the areas the punters would choose to visit when they wanted to vomit against the back wall, so that was a motivator as well. Ahh, free, fragrant youth...sometimes I do pine for thee. Other times not so much.

 

[markshan]

I am afraid that I do not understand your point or its relevance.

The post you were responding to said something to the effect that classical fans think they are smarter than everyone else. My point is that I can't say smarter, but that there is a whole lot more info to take in and less access to it. I wasn't quite saying that classical fans have a right to think that but I was saying it would be understandable if they did.