Will Atmos go away in a couple years?

QuadraphonicQuad

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MidiMagic

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As long as the music industry has new ideas of new formats in the future they will let the old formats die and present a new one. So many of us will buy the same music again and again and the industry is happy.

This is capitalism!
It is monopoly. You bought the music already, and now they demand that you buy it again so that it works on your new system. It was wrong for copyright to be extended beyond the original 10 years.

This reminds me of [email protected]#% Microsoft making you pay to upgrade, making you buy a new operating system, and making new operating systems not work on old computers and vice-versa (or is it just vice).

I want maximum compatibility, not creeping featurism.
 
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MidiMagic

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And what do people using Bluetooth get?
What I mean is that there are people who want to wirelessly send audio all over the house.

How many channels can they send before they fill up the capacity of Bluetooth or other wireless systems?
 

MidiMagic

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My dream:
  • Prebuilt Houses with new technology flat-thin speakers preinstalled in all walls and ceilings, with multidirectional modules spread all around. (i.e. many many virtual individual speakers).
  • The flat-thin modules on walls and ceiling will have also luminescent pixels, both for lighting and for configurable video screens and video effects.
  • The majority of people will have those systems already installed.
  • Routine configuration services of the preinstalled modules to activate them according to the forniture.
  • No negative WAF, as the house comes that way.
  • Good business for the masses, so they will invest enough money to deliver good immersive mixes for audio and video.
  • I do not want the contractor who built my house to choose my speakers.
  • Please, no Swiss-Army modules that do each of many functions poorly. I am already sick of seeing speakers with built in LED displays.
  • The majority of people will have super-mediocre systems already installed?
  • Forniture? Is this some new kind of californication?
  • What if you want an existing single family house instead of the tenements our government wants built?
  • How much will this add to the cost of a house?
  • When a speaker fails, that model will be discontinued and you can't get a replacement that sounds the same and fits the space in the wall.
 

AYanguas

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  • I do not want the contractor who built my house to choose my speakers.
  • Please, no Swiss-Army modules that do each of many functions poorly. I am already sick of seeing speakers with built in LED displays.
  • The majority of people will have super-mediocre systems already installed?
  • Forniture? Is this some new kind of californication?
  • What if you want an existing single family house instead of the tenements our government wants built?
  • How much will this add to the cost of a house?
  • When a speaker fails, that model will be discontinued and you can't get a replacement that sounds the same and fits the space in the wall.
OK, you apply current technology and society standards.

My dream goes more ahead and we "the sheeps" will opt only for what those who have the power want to sell us.

But I understand you. We now can opt for the better that surpasses the masses standard. And be proud for having something differentiating. In my dream, everybody would have almost the same and would be considered "normal", so no option for hobby or extra enjoyment over the masses.

It is a dream of advanced technology in a controlled world. Everybody having real MCH sound. Everybody eating "Soylent Green".
 

AYanguas

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It is monopoly. You bought the music already, and now they demand that you buy it again so that it works on your new system. It was wrong for copyright to be extended beyond the original 10 years.

This remonds me of [email protected]#% Microsoft making you pay to upgrade, making you buy a new operating system, and making new operating systems not work on old computers and vice-versa (or is it just vice).

I want maximum compatibility, not creeping featurism.

But the reality is that:

- Planned Obsolescence was invented.
- Remix surround/Atmos releases production cost money. It's normal they want to get a return.
- Many of us (from this forum only) are willing to pay money to have same music in a 'better' format.
- Also the equipment manufacturers want to continue business. So new technology, new gadgets, new formats is the rule.
 

barfle

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But the reality is that:

- Planned Obsolescence was invented.
- Remix surround/Atmos releases production cost money. It's normal they want to get a return.
- Many of us (from this forum only) are willing to pay money to have same music in a 'better' format.
- Also the equipment manufacturers want to continue business. So new technology, new gadgets, new formats is the rule.
Obsolescence happens because people invent new ways of doing things. I doubt that Edison or Berliner planned on Blu-rays obsoleting their grammophones.

I’ve been upgrading my toys, tools, and other posessions since I had the means to do so. Some new ideas stick, some don’t. My Gilette hot comb was a bust.
 

~dave~~wave~

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Obsolescence happens because people invent new ways of doing things. I doubt that Edison or Berliner planned on Blu-rays obsoleting their grammophones.

I’ve been upgrading my toys, tools, and other posessions since I had the means to do so. Some new ideas stick, some don’t. My Gilette hot comb was a bust.
:LOL: Been there, done that.

Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 8.53.42 AM.png
 

Sal1950

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It is monopoly. You bought the music already, and now they demand that you buy it again so that it works on your new system. It was wrong for copyright to be extended beyond the original 10 years.
This attitude at QQ surprises me a bit?
What older music do you own you can no longer play?
Who forced you to buy Quad, or 5.1, or Atmos music?
If people don't buy it, it dies. Remember Quad?
For myself I'm thrilled to have access to all these new options.
This reminds me of [email protected]#% Microsoft making you pay to upgrade, making you buy a new operating system, and making new operating systems not work on old computers and vice-versa (or is it just vice).
Nothing at all like MS and the computer industry,
But then again would you be happy today on a Windows 3.1 computer with a 2gb harddrive?


I want maximum compatibility, not creeping featurism.
Really? Think about it.
Do you want to sell your rig off and go back to mono on 78s?

This is capitalism!
Yes. Someone has an idea for a product, and takes on all the risks associated to bring it to market.
If people embrace it, he prospers
If not, he goes broke.
A wonderful system IMHO
 
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MidiMagic

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This attitude at QQ surprises me a bit?
What older music do you own you can no longer play?
Who forced you to buy Quad, or 5.1, or Atmos music?
If people don't buy it, it dies. Remember Quad?
For myself I'm thrilled to have access to all these new options.

Nothing at all like MS and the computer industry,
But then again would you be happy today on a Windows 3.1 computer with a 2gb harddrive?



Really? Think about it.
Do you want to sell your rig off and go back to mono on 78s?


Yes. Someone has an idea for a product, and takes on all the risks associated to bring it to market.
If people embrace it, he prospers
If not, he goes broke.
A wonderful system IMHO

"What older music do you own you can no longer play?"

Music I can no longer buy a player for: 8-track cartridges and half-track offset stereo reels. And digital recordings I have that played on older computers, but not the new ones.

You do not get my point. A large part of the price of a recording is the copyright license to play the music. Since I already paid for that, I should not have to pay it again if I get a different mix or a different format. The music was written only once.

"If people don't buy it, it dies. Remember Quad?"

What about my old video games? They won't play on digital TVs.

What if you bought it and then all of your equipment to play it died?

Think of it the other way around. Every printer I ever owned stopped working, not because it failed, but because they stopped making ink for it. They FORCED me to replace a perfectly good product.

I used to own an instant picture camera. Then the product was declared illegal because it violated someone else's patent. But I didn't get my money back and I lost the ability to take pictures (no new film).

"But then again would you be happy today on a Windows 3.1 computer with a 2gb harddrive?"

Yes!!! I have about a thousand dollars worth of software that I have licenses for, but that I can't use because nothing today will correctly run Windows 3.1. And I have a lot of sheet music I wrote that I can't read anymore because I can't run Windows 3.1.

I have written well over 1000 programs in my lifetime. I have about 40 that still work. The rest cannot be used because there are no computers left that can run them.

The lab where I worked had to abandon several 20-year studies because they could not buy computers to replace the ones that failed. New computers could not operate the scientific equipment because they did not have the ports or bus connectors the equipment needed. Many of the programs I wrote operated this equipment. All of this was obsoleted by Intel and Microsoft. Millions of dollars of equipment rendered useless.

Upgrades are the bane of scientific investigation. The rules of ceteris paribus require that nothing else can be changed during any scientific study. Proving the new equipment behaves the same as the old equipment also takes much effort and time.

I wrote the same program 7 times so I could still have a working copy of it when the older computers were gone.

I paid for and own a software copyright that I never made any money from. A month after I got the copyright, the company that made the computer the software was for was forced to stop making the computer. Nintendo sued them because their computers could play game cartridges with a simple bus adapter plug.

I do not know how many computer images I have lost because new computers could not use the images from the old computers.

They almost lost the 1960 US census data because there were no more computer tape drives that could read the tapes. They found a collector who had a working one.

They lost the high resolution video of the Apollo 11 landing because the maker of the video tape for the special camera went out of business. They reused the tapes for each mission because it was the only tape they had.

"Yes. Someone has an idea for a product, and takes on all the risks associated to bring it to market.
If people embrace it, he prospers."

And all of the money spent on stuff the people bought for the previous product is wasted because the producer of the previous product went out of business..
 
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AYanguas

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What you say @MidiMagic is correct. But this is the world we live in.

This reminds me when someone says:
"Man went to the Moon 50 years ago. Why do they not go again quickly?, it should be easier now!"

I can imagine that the whole NASA project management has to be rebuilt. Old documentation and computer programs (if they exist) cannot be understood by young engineers.
Almost everything has to be designed and planned from start. With new equipment, new HW, new space suits, etc.
 

tonyE

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Atmos is here to stay.
I have a Marantz 4415 (with SQA-1, CD-400B and RC-4) and Akai AS980. Both were fully rebuilt last year.

I think I need the SQA-2B. They tell me the RC-4 also works on the Akai... I may have to get another one.

But, my cartridge is too low an output to drive either phono preamp... hmm...

Quad is here to stay... in the closet so far.
 

tonyE

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"What older music do you own you can no longer play?"

Music I can no longer buy a player for: 8-track cartridges and half-track offset stereo reels. And digital recordings I have that played on older computers, but not the new ones.

You do not get my point. A large part of the price of a recording is the copyright license to play the music. Since I already paid for that, I should not have to pay it again if I get a different mix or a different format. The music was written only once.

"If people don't buy it, it dies. Remember Quad?"

What about my old video games? They won't play on digital TVs.

What if you bought it and then all of your equipment to play it died?

Think of it the other way around. Every printer I ever owned stopped working, not because it failed, but because they stopped making ink for it. They FORCED me to replace a perfectly good product.

I used to own an instant picture camera. Then the product was declared illegal because it violated someone else's patent. But I didn't get my money back and I lost the ability to take pictures (no new film).

"But then again would you be happy today on a Windows 3.1 computer with a 2gb harddrive?"

Yes!!! I have about a thousand dollars worth of software that I have licenses for, but that I can't use because nothing today will correctly run Windows 3.1. And I have a lot of sheet music I wrote that I can't read anymore because I can't run Windows 3.1.

I have written well over 1000 programs in my lifetime. I have about 40 that still work. The rest cannot be used because there are no computers left that can run them.

The lab where I worked had to abandon several 20-year studies because they could not buy computers to replace the ones that failed. New computers could not operate the scientific equipment because they did not have the ports or bus connectors the equipment needed. Many of the programs I wrote operated this equipment. All of this was obsoleted by Intel and Microsoft. Millions of dollars of equipment rendered useless.

Upgrades are the bane of scientific investigation. The rules of ceteris paribus require that nothing else can be changed during any scientific study. Proving the new equipment behaves the same as the old equipment also takes much effort and time.

I wrote the same program 7 times so I could still have a working copy of it when the older computers were gone.

I paid for and own a software copyright that I never made any money from. A month after I got the copyright, the company that made the computer the software was for was forced to stop making the computer. Nintendo sued them because their computers could play game cartridges with a simple bus adapter plug.

I do not know how many computer images I have lost because new computers could not use the images from the old computers.

They almost lost the 1960 US census data because there were no more computer tape drives that could read the tapes. They found a collector who had a working one.

They lost the high resolution video of the Apollo 11 landing because the maker of the video tape for the special camera went out of business. They reused the tapes for each mission because it was the only tape they had.

"Yes. Someone has an idea for a product, and takes on all the risks associated to bring it to market.
If people embrace it, he prospers."

And all of the money spent on stuff the people bought for the previous product is wasted because the producer of the previous product went out of business..

I cleaned up my cable bins.... I still had long Centronics cables and the ISDN modems. Gave them away so hopefully someone else can use them.

Recently I tossed most of my DVI cables.

I got two SLR cameras, a Hi-8 and DV camcorders, 2 laserdiscs, on SuperBeta (SLHF1000)...

But, I still have 20 year old RCA analog interconnects and my (rebuilt) 50 year old quad receivers work fine.

Anything touched by computers gets obsolete pretty fast. Video gets touched by computers because it moved to digital.

OTOH, good old analog 2 channel audio, and even analog quad (FM modulation) still works fine today.

Yeah... I once was a Jedi Master with HPIB stuff. Paid my mortgage for many years.
 

tonyE

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What you say @MidiMagic is correct. But this is the world we live in.

This reminds me when someone says:
"Man went to the Moon 50 years ago. Why do they not go again quickly?, it should be easier now!"

I can imagine that the whole NASA project management has to be rebuilt. Old documentation and computer programs (if they exist) cannot be understood by young engineers.
Almost everything has to be designed and planned from start. With new equipment, new HW, new space suits, etc.

I think it's fundamentally different now.

When Apollo went to the moon it was a scientific endeavor: they were creating science to support engineering.

Today, going to the Moon is an engineering effort. NASA can't do it. Space X is much better set up for that.

Besides, remember the good old days when people smoked in the office? People even smoked in the control room!
 

tonyE

300 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
321
What you say @MidiMagic is correct. But this is the world we live in.

This reminds me when someone says:
"Man went to the Moon 50 years ago. Why do they not go again quickly?, it should be easier now!"

I can imagine that the whole NASA project management has to be rebuilt. Old documentation and computer programs (if they exist) cannot be understood by young engineers.
Almost everything has to be designed and planned from start. With new equipment, new HW, new space suits, etc.

.
 

tonyE

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Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
321
What I mean is that there are people who want to wirelessly send audio all over the house.

How many channels can they send before they fill up the capacity of Bluetooth or other wireless systems?

Redtooth is coming..

Then Greentooth....

Then Purpletoes....

It never changes: the more things change the more they stay the same
 

Marcsten

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I cleaned up my cable bins.... I still had long Centronics cables and the ISDN modems. Gave them away so hopefully someone else can use them.

Recently I tossed most of my DVI cables.

I got two SLR cameras, a Hi-8 and DV camcorders, 2 laserdiscs, on SuperBeta (SLHF1000)...

But, I still have 20 year old RCA analog interconnects and my (rebuilt) 50 year old quad receivers work fine.

Anything touched by computers gets obsolete pretty fast. Video gets touched by computers because it moved to digital.

OTOH, good old analog 2 channel audio, and even analog quad (FM modulation) still works fine today.

Yeah... I once was a Jedi Master with HPIB stuff. Paid my mortgage for many years.
I tend to agree with you. Analogue can have work arounds in many cases to make them work with newer equipment. Digital, very seldom. I have a hard drive that isn't USB, its firewire. Worthless now. Yet my Sansei receiver is in my condo running the surround sound from the blu ray/cd/DVD player just fine, not to mention stereo, FM radio, SQ and QS. It came out in 1974. My 'State of the art' Tate came out in 1979. Its still the heart of my system and anything that is not discrete surround sound run through it and work just fine.
 
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