HiRez Poll Wilson, Steven - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray Audio]

[ar surround]

On one side people on this group and elsewhere complain about compressed recordings and then when they get uncompressed recordings, the dynamic range is too much to handle. This exemplifies the recording engineers dilemma.

Yes. As a mentor told me when I was a young lad, "If it was easy, everyone would be doing it." Then there is the matter of playback in a moving car where a high DR is often undesirable.

 

[marpow]

Just giving this one another listen, after a very, very long while. I gave it a ten first time around, but I'm tempted to knock it down a mark, because I don't think the production is quite as good as I first thought. To be clear; the recording, song writing, musicianship, surround mix, dynamics are all incredible. Easily a ten. But to my ears it's sounding very slightly stilted at the top end. Now, I'm normally someone who would mark an album down for being too bright, but this one (I'm playing the LPCM on the BluRay) is over warm and loses some of the impact that it could have had as a consequence. I don't think I'll change my score, because overall it's just so damned good, but I no longer consider it to be quite as perfect as I once did. But it's still very close.

I'm going to listen to some of his later albums now to see if that changed on them. The Incident next, I think.

When I voted I gave it a 10. I do sympathize with your 10-9 vote and I maybe feel the same way.
I cannot articulate as well as your reason is but I will say how I feel.
When I purchased this way back when it was one of the first 20 or 30 surround discs I bought and it was certainly the first discrete video discs I bought.
When I first listened I was blown away how good I thought it was (The Raven That Refused To Sing) and my first look at Steven Wilson, a 10 for sure.
Then I watched/listened about a month ago and I felt the same way as you, maybe for same or different reasons. I just felt it didn't blow me away as my first experience.
How it want across in my mind was that since me purchase years ago I have listened to thousands more surround discs or is that hundreds more. I have heard so many 8's, 9's and 10's and unfortunately lesser ones that I told myself I have matured as a surround listener.
I at this point am not going to change my 10 vote, but just wanted to share my understanding of your post.

 

[sjcorne]

Either you want the DR or you don't.

If it's really that simple, I guess I'd take the DR - but I find it hard to believe there's no middle ground between a completely brickwalled recording and acoustic guitars so-quiet-you-can barely-detect-them followed by an organ exploding in your face. I've got tons of surround discs that I can listen to all the way through without adjusting the volume - Roxy Music's Avalon, Beck's Sea Change, and the Doobie Brothers' The Captain & Me are three examples of what I consider to be perfect mix/mastering.

For such instances, where you don't there is always the DR control

Is this feature found in the AVR or the Blu-Ray player? If it's an AVR thing, then it's a no-go for me since I use a '70s quad amp.

Apparently even for some audiophiles, the DR is too much.

I never thought of myself as an audiophile—I’m just a surround nut, really—so I guess I'll take that as a compliment

 

[JediJoker]

If it's really that simple, I guess I'd take the DR - but I find it hard to believe there's no middle ground between a completely brickwalled recording and acoustic guitars so-quiet-you-can barely-detect-them followed by an organ exploding in your face.

There is absolutely a "middle ground," what is sometimes called a "loudness sweet spot," where the dynamics are intelligible but comfortable. For me, it's right around DR13 for most stereo pop recordings (and I use "pop" in a catholic manner here).

 

[edisonbaggins]

This place never ceases to surprise me!
I've never had to touch the volume to enjoy this album.

 

[bluelightning]

Z

acoustic guitars so-quiet-you-can barely-detect-them followed by an organ exploding in your face. I've got tons of surround discs that I can listen to all the

This is exactly the case where I love the high DR. when an organ or loud part kicks in, I expect to be blown away!. I have not yet found a recording where I thought the DR was too much. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

The DR control I referred to earlier is in most modern AVRs.

 

[bluelightning]

There is absolutely a "middle ground," what is sometimes called a "loudness sweet spot," where the dynamics are intelligible but comfortable. For me, it's right around DR13 for most stereo pop recordings (and I use "pop" in a catholic manner here).

The middle ground is the dynamic range control or the volume control. I sure hope artists and most certainly classical recording engineers engineers don't try to settle for a contrived DR13 metric. Though of course, I am most likely in the minority over here. For music with a mix of electric and acoustic instruments, I can appreciate the difficulty in setting the right dynamic range. With classical music it is much easier a decision in the sense that for purists, one can simply take the native dynamic range and call it done.

 

[fthesoundguy]

This was my introduction to Steven Wilson way back in 2014 I think. The Pin Drop got thrown on some sort of spotify playlist and it intrigued me to say the least. It wasn't until a couple of years later that I finally let this album play out and boy, what a surprise I got. It is such a great mix and listening to the 5.1 version makes it even better. Everything just sits so perfectly where it is. Plenty of wonderful surround moments but when there aren’t any of those, its still a beautiful album to get immersed in. To me, that screams that someone knows how to write beautiful songs. It’s really powerful when it goes from vocals only back to a full band. I had no clue Alan Parsons was involved in this until I started reading the liner notes while playing the album.

Luminol: This song might go into my 5.1 demo showcase. Starts off with a bang and barely lets up. Loved the synth movement at the beginning. Halfway through at the guitar break, the backing vocals in the the 4 corners while the lead was in the center was chilling. even my wife went ‘Whoa” at that part when I made her listen to this song. It was also cool to hear a snare coming out of the 4 corners as well! You don’t really get to hear snare coming out of the rears too often. Loved the Flute swirling around the room fading to that synth-like sound. The build up back to full strength is amazing. Loved all the different instruments that get to shine during those moments (vocals, piano, flute, strings, synths).

Drive Home: This is such a beautiful song that surprised the hell out of me when that fantastic guitar solo comes on. Just when I thought that I already heard the masterpiece of this album, I keep getting surprised.

The Holy Drinker: I don’t really know what to say about this. I totally got lost in this song every time I have listened to it. The synth in the beginning shifting all throughout the room was great. Those vocal delays are wonderful. Loved the part with the keys in the rears and flute up front. The slow part is amazing with the reverb encapsulating in the entire field. During the ending, I would have liked the guitars to be up just a bit more. Its getting lost with all the other sounds happening. At a lower volume, it seems a little better, but I want to crank this one! My dogs always start barking when the wolves howl at the end. Another wonderful showcase worthy song.

The Pin Drop: This mix sounds a bit cluttered to me once it gets going. One of the only let downs for me. The bridge was well done, but then again, less sounds to get overwhelmed by. I feel like this one should have had a bit more separation going on in the surrounds. A lot of what was in there was also in the fronts, which explains the cluttered sound to me. I like the final note panning around though.

The Watchmaker: Those backing vocals in the rears really surprised me at the beginning! They are also really well done. The dry lead vocal with the heavily reverbed backing vocals has a great moment of the whole sound field opening up. That mini guitar solo in the rears was nice with the acoustic up front. There are so many different things going on in this that all sound alike and its cool. One moment Its a guitar but then the next its a flute and lastly an organ! Really great. The piano break is really fantastic as well. Again, a showcase song for certain.

The Raven That Refused To Sing: The reverbs sound so lovely. Really opens up those vocals in surround. Loved the strings and piano in the rears during the buildup. Just a really beautiful song that invokes a bunch of emotion and a great way to end the album.

It's a 10. Everything about this album is just fantastic. From the warm ‘analog’ sound that is all over this recording to the amazing songwriting. A great compromise between some 70s bands as well as the ones from this century. I would love to know the little details on how this was recorded. It’s just a fantastic meld of sounds. This is one of the only recordings so far where when something is in the 4 corner speakers, it truly feels like it is in the middle of my brain. I also love that there are three long epic songs on one album! Parsons knows what he is doing behind the recording desk as well as the producer for this album. This album and Hand. Cannot. Erase. (and that’s up for a through review soon too) are the SW masterpieces that I will always go back to consistently.

Value: I got this for $15, 7 years after the release. I’m happy that its a very accessible title. No crazy box set for this to get stuck into. The lounge version of Drive Home was also pretty cool (no 5.1 though).

Mix Highlights: Luminol, The Holy Drinker, The Watchmaker, The Raven That Refused To Sing

 

[madship]

This is an album I've had since initial release. I preordered it from Burning Shed or Headphone Dust, but didn't really get into it until after Hand Cannot Erase. Upon receipt, I read the stories and listened to the songs, but didn't fall in love with it on the surround system I had at the time. After HCE, I went back to this album, having moved and improved my listening environment, and found it was much better than I had thought,

The six songs on this album are great. The production is great. The surround mix is Wilson's best on his own material and may be his best overall, although The Future Bites is close,

From any other artist, Raven, would be the pinnacle if their career, but this is Steven Wilson; Raven has to compete with In Absentia, Fear of a Blank Planet and Hand Cannot Erase. I spent this evening listening to Steven's last fours albums. I still think Hand is the better album, but it is like choosing between which hand you like better, They are both great and I don't want to live without either,

Without question a 10.

 

[edisonbaggins]

This is an album I've had since initial release. I preordered it from Burning Shed or Headphone Dust, but didn't really get into it until after Hand Cannot Erase. Upon receipt, I read the stories and listened to the songs, but didn't fall in love with it on the surround system I had at the time. After HCE, I went back to this album, having moved and improved my listening environment, and found it was much better than I had thought,

The six songs on this album are great. The production is great. The surround mix is Wilson's best on his own material and may be his best overall, although The Future Bites is close,

From any other artist, Raven, would be the pinnacle if their career, but this is Steven Wilson; Raven has to compete with In Absentia, Fear of a Blank Planet and Hand Cannot Erase. I spent this evening listening to Steven's last fours albums. I still think Hand is the better album, but it is like choosing between which hand you like better, They are both great and I don't want to live without either,

Without question a 10.

No love for 4 1/2?!

 

[M-K]

Steven Wilson at his best.

Songs-Sound-Surroundmix.
Fantastic = 10.

My favorite and one of my personal all time top 30.

 

[madship]

No love for 4 1/2?!

4 1/2 is good, but like Nil Recurring, it is an EP of leftovers.

 

[M-K]

4 1/2 is good, but like Nil Recurring, it is an EP of leftovers.

But very good leftovers. The songs didn't fit to the albums somehow. Good that those were released in that way.

 

[sjcorne]

But very good leftovers. The songs didn't fit to the albums somehow. Good that those were released in that way.

"My Book Of Regrets" ties into the narrative of Hand Cannot Erase and probably could have been included on that album. Based on the lyrics, I think it would fit between the title track and "Routine".

 

[SyrinxTemple]

"My Book Of Regrets" ties into the narrative of Hand Cannot Erase and probably could have been included on that album. Based on the lyrics, I think it would fit between the title track and "Routine".

Funny, I have taken the HCE tracks from 4 1/2 and reintegrated them into the album. I actually put "My Book of Regrets" as the opener.

 

[Beefalo]

4 1/2 is good, but like Nil Recurring, it is an EP of leftovers.

Ah @madship
but leftovers can be quite tasty!

 

[madship]

Ah @madship
but leftovers can be quite tasty!

Sometimes better than the original meal. But not in this case.

Listening to Raven right now, and am blown away, again, by the mix and the quality of the songs.

I wish the poll went to 11.

 

[JediJoker]

4 1/2 is good, but like Nil Recurring, it is an EP of leftovers.

Ah @madship
but leftovers can be quite tasty!

Case in point: Recordings. Leftovers from the Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun sessions. Stands on its own as a solid album.

 

[ar surround]

Fidelity: 3 of 3
Mix: 3 of 3
Music: 1 of 3
Overall: 7

Musically, I only like the first two tracks. I can't make it through any of the others. Obviously, this is not my kind of music because I gave To The Bone, Hand.Cannot.Erase and The Future Bites all a "10." I still give it a 7 because of the first two tracks, excellent fidelity and excellent mix.

 

[Matt Wilson]

I see I never rated this when I bought it last year, but it's another 10. I don't own a Wilson or Porcupine Tree album in surround which doesn't score a 10 to these ears. Awesome music too.