HiRez Poll Yes - FRAGILE (2002 Mix) [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

[Beefalo]

This is one of those 5.1s that makes me wonder if my head's on right. I listened to the 2002 DVDA mix from the 2015 SW bluray and it's... really terrible. The reverb, it's like Yes, Live from the well in your backyard. So much reverb, and the only things on Roundabout that make it to the rears are some keyboard bits. Extended stereo? Totally! It gets a bit better as it goes on with South Side and such, but meh. Deserves a 3 IMO, because the horrific mix job on the 5.1 actively hurts the album which is itself pretty good. Sound quality is bad too, which is weird. 2015 SW 5.1 Fragile sounds good on my system, my 1972 Fragile LP sounds good on my system, and Close to the Edge(both old LP and 2013 Blu) does too...

That's probably why I never listen to mine. It's been gathering dust since I bought it....

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

The one to AVOID like the PLAUGE!!!!
IT
The one to LOVE TO IT TO DEATH!!!

LOVE IT TO DEATH?! This isn't the ALICE COOPER thread is it?! LMAO

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I didn't think the DVD-A was as bad as some of you believe it is, though I haven't played it in quite some time. The Wilson mix is quite a bit better though.

 

[ctoelle]

Thing is, the DVD-A mix is on the blu-ray as a bonus feature.
YOU CAN'T ESCAPE IT!!!

 

[ssully]

Claims that there's little surround content on this are overblown. It's there. Load each track into audacity and A/B fronts to rears if you're skeptical. But the reverb issue is real. It's there too.

Actually what is really revealing is to have both surround mixes as files, and A/B back and forth between them on the same track. A luxury that ripping discs to files affords. SW's doesn't always 'win', to my ears.

To me the only big deficits to this version* are the weird 'missing bits' botch that was made of 'South Side of the Sky', and the extra reverb, noticeable mainly on 'Mood for a Day'. *Neither* mix EQs Bruford as crisply as I'd like. (Though neither did the original mix! It was one of the things I'd hoped a remix would revisit)


* not counting 'America', which is just horrible in both surround versions, this and Wilson's, but especially this one.

 

[califcab]

The Steven Wilson mix is a 10.

 

[fourml8r]

had the DVD-A for several years. sold it as soon as i got the steve wilson bluray.

 

[ar surround]

The one to AVOID like the PLAUGE!!!!
View attachment 57177IT
The one to LOVE TO IT TO DEATH!!!
View attachment 57178
LOVE IT TO DEATH?! This isn't the ALICE COOPER thread is it?! LMAO

And for those who have time to kill, IIRC, the new Wilson Blu-ray also has the older "plague" mix.

 

[proufo]

I was listening to this mix and my son, who plays bass and knows the album, told me "Where is the bass (player)?!"

Then I played for him the 5.1 SW mix and his comment was "That's more like it!"

 

[jimfisheye]

This was one of those circa early 2000's DVDA releases that put a cursory surround mix on the disc to fill a slot. That's how pretty much all those mixes sound to me. (Save 1 or 2 good ones that snuck out.) There's a level of fidelity there that's full pro level. And that actually makes it more annoying because the mix is just phoned in. To add insult to injury, there's a bonus track of America on the disc and they have some of Steve's guide outtake parts in the mix! I heard Mr Howe pointedly comment on this in an interview once and he was not pleased!

I remember hearing the Billion Dollar Babies 5.1 remix and it was the same deal. So insulting to release a phoned in mix for that one with no inclusion of the original quad surround mix anywhere on the disc.

The SW remix gave me new life with this album. I thought I had pretty much played it out. I've actually put the SW mix on a number of times now though.

 

[ssully]

The degree to which these two mixes differ , especially in surround emphasis, varies from track to track.

Examples, the 2001 '5% for nothing' surround mix for example is much more mobile than Wilson's...it literally swirls around you, whereas Wilson's instruments stay put. But surrounds are certainly louder and more active in Wilson's 'Heart of the Sunrise' than the 2001. I'd call Cans and Brahms and LDR/Fish a draw.


One other area that differs, and could account for people liking the bass on SW's more, is that the 2001 uses the LFE channel in the traditional way: for *very low bass only*, throughout the album. Whereas Wilson peculiarly, on some tracks (e.g. on 'Heart of the Sunrise'), duplicates the bass guitar and drum content at full frequency range (i.e., cymbals too) in the LFE channel.

 

[JediJoker]

I'm basing my review on the 2002 mix as presented on the 2015 Blu-ray.

MIX: 2. Tim Weidner takes some serious liberties and risks, here! Sometimes, it works and is fun, but not always. "Five Per Cent For Nothing" is particularly manic, with mix elements jumping from speaker to speaker with each passing note. Overall, the mix is undeniably surround-y, and I have to give Weidner credit for being daring. (I much prefer Steven Wilson's mix, though.)

FIDELITY: 1. I really don't like Weidner's sonic approach. It's like he tried to make the album sound like it was recorded and produced in 2002, complete with pitch-corrected vocals, added reverb, and modern effects. It's not objectively bad, but it certainly doesn't sound the way I want it to sound. (By contrast, Wilson nailed this one.) Plus, "America" is super loud!

CONTENT: 2. Fragile isn't my favorite Yes album—the five "solo" pieces drag it down, musically—but it's an undeniable classic. "Roundabout," "South Side of the Sky," "Long Distance Runaround," and "Heart of the Sunrise" are great tunes. It's nice to have the inventive cover of "America" included, too.

PACKAGING: 1. Nothing wrong with a standalone DVD-A in a Super Jewel Box Plus.

TOTAL: 6

 

[ssully]

I find both remixes of "America" to be 'objectively bad' (which isn't a real thing...'bad' suffices) . Both are so disappointing.

5% For Nothing has a 'hocketing' arrangement; fragments of the melody are passed from instrument to instrument. It's the sort of thing Gentle Giant liked to do.

That makes Weidner surround mix of it much more appropriate sounding to me than Wilson's.

 

[JediJoker]

I find both remixes of "America" to be 'objectively bad...'

That comment refers to the fidelity of the release as a whole, not to "America" specifically. Reordered to be clearer.

5% For Nothing has a 'hocketing' arrangement; fragments of the melody are passed from instrument to instrument.

I'm familiar with Hocketing (lifelong choral singer). The issue here is that it's not just the arrangement that jumps around, with the instruments staying put: the instruments themselves jump around. Jarring.