Yes -Open Your Eyes(not sure if real surround)

[peterzach]

I came across this review and person mentioned that there is a surround version of this album.
Does anyone here have this and know what this is exactly and is it worth trying to track down?

http://www.musicstreetjournal.com/artists_cdreviews_display.cfm?id=100180

peter

 

[LizardKing]

Yes! It is real.....

Its (sort of) a real surround title. I remember buying this in a local Best Buy when I lived in Florida '99 I think...before I had surround!!!

As it says on the back of the slipcase:

Yes debuts the surround sound process pioneered by Seattle Audio Imaging Labs, Inc. (SAIL). SAIL has invented an encoding system that makes music consistently compatible with today's home theater systems. Having eliminated image collapse and synamic frequency response aberrations, the SAIL process results in a superior surround sound experience without any enhancements to the hardware components. For those without surround sound systems, meaning regular stereo systems, there is no difference in output from standard stereo. To make music compatible with today's surround sound systems, SAIL used their REcode process for the album. REcode is a mastering process that renders stereo or two-track material in SAIL surround sound. The process detects the statistical average of the spatial field and translates that to the placement of images in the surround sound field.




This article talks about SAIL encoding..
http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/1998/bhs/bhs.html

I used to play this via PLII, now I play it via my Surround Master..

 

[LizardKing]

BTW - Its OK - I wouldn't say its great though, being effectively Dolby Surround...

 

[neil wilkes]

Yes debuts the surround sound process pioneered by Seattle Audio Imaging Labs, Inc. (SAIL). SAIL has invented an encoding system that makes music consistently compatible with today's home theater systems. Having eliminated image collapse and synamic frequency response aberrations, the SAIL process results in a superior surround sound experience without any enhancements to the hardware components. For those without surround sound systems, meaning regular stereo systems, there is no difference in output from standard stereo. To make music compatible with today's surround sound systems, SAIL used their REcode process for the album. REcode is a mastering process that renders stereo or two-track material in SAIL surround sound. The process detects the statistical average of the spatial field and translates that to the placement of images in the surround sound field.

All of this is a fancy long winded way of saying "The surround performance on this disc has been electronically created without the benefit of the original multitrack masters" as the RPGA would say.

IMHO, they have hit the nail on the head and all 5.1 titles should be clearly marked as either the above (in the case of an upmix) or else "The 5.1 performance on this disc is a full remix from the original multitrack masters".

It's a phoney.

 

[DKA]

All of this is a fancy long winded way of saying "The surround performance on this disc has been electronically created without the benefit of the original multitrack masters" as the RPGA would say.

Isn't it always?
You are awesome, Neil. Just awesome. Thank you for living.

 

[peterzach]

All of this is a fancy long winded way of saying "The surround performance on this disc has been electronically created without the benefit of the original multitrack masters" as the RPGA would say.

IMHO, they have hit the nail on the head and all 5.1 titles should be clearly marked as either the above (in the case of an upmix) or else "The 5.1 performance on this disc is a full remix from the original multitrack masters".

It's a phoney.

Thats what I kind of thought, oh well, will save me some money trying to track this down and can put toward real surrounds coming out.
Thanks again Neil......

 

[ProgRules]

Yes, it is pseudo-surround, but you're missing the main point: the music is not very good. At or near the bottom of Yes' output in most all die-hard Yesfans' opinions I've ever heard and I agree. Didn't stop me from double-dipping for the SAIL version way back when it debuted- more fool me.

 

[ssully]

Has anyone ever determined what was supposed to be the 'right' way to decode 'SAIL' encoded surround? The blurb from SAIL on the back of Open Your Eyes is totally uninformative, and promises that it needs no new 'enhancements to hardware components'. I presume that meant, just use whatever Dolby option available in 1997 on home systems?

 

[RustyStatic]

This thread has been dormant for a long time, but I'm wondering the same thing... I saw recently someone post they were listening to this, so I managed to score a decently priced copy ($16, where it looks like nothing else on Discogs right now is available for less than $50)... but I can't get it to play in surround, only stereo. And when I try to select different audio options, it just has these weird selections like L, R, L+R but the sound doesn't change at all when I play with them. My Sony UBP-X700 (which plays every format I throw at it without issue) just can't recognize this as anything else than a CD, it seems...

 

[EricKalet]

This thread has been dormant for a long time, but I'm wondering the same thing... I saw recently someone post they were listening to this, so I managed to score a decently priced copy ($16, where it looks like nothing else on Discogs right now is available for less than $50)... but I can't get it to play in surround, only stereo. And when I try to select different audio options, it just has these weird selections like L, R, L+R but the sound doesn't change at all when I play with them. My Sony UBP-X700 (which plays every format I throw at it without issue) just can't recognize this as anything else than a CD, it seems...

This will only play back in stereo. It is not a discrete encoded disc like dts, dolby, sacd or mlp. SAIL wa simply similar to "Q sound" pyschoacoustics. This disc you run through your DSP and playback using Dolby Surround or DTS neo.

 

[rugene]

I'm not sure if it's real Yes...

 

[RustyStatic]

Ah, that's very helpful @EricKalet — I appreciate the explanation! I haven't A/B tested it with anything else but my general reaction to it yesterday was "eh?" I realize some will say that about the content itself, but I'm just talking about the sound here.

As for that, it wouldn't be my top pick for Yes, I'm the biggest fan of the 1969-1974 run, but I've got at least a little love for everything else up to and including Magnification, and then I tap out.

 

[EricKalet]

Your welcome @RustyStatic.

Album/music wise, for me, after Big Generator, things go south. I'll have to revisit albums Union --> Heaven & Earth - obviously those are 8 not memorable for me.

 

[RustyStatic]

Yeah, Union is pretty shaky but has some great moments... I'm actually a pretty big fan of Talk but that's kinda just when it hit me in life, not that it's objectively great. I actually think Magnification is pretty darn strong too... the others, like The Ladder, Open Your Eyes, Keys to Ascension... again, all workmanlike and "fine" but nothing stellar. Once Anderson is gone, I'm out. I have a copy of Fly From Here (Return Trip) because it's the Drama band... but it doesn't get much love or play, it's just kinda on principal.

 

[jimfisheye]

Too bad it's a fake! There were a couple maybe half interesting tracks that might have been fun to hear in surround (as well as not volume war'd if that wouldn't have been assuming too much). Like that track Homeworld is kind of cool to hear in 5.1 and not volume war bludgeoned like the stereo.

Not much more to add to the comments about the band's decline tho.

It's kind of telling when their classic period albums are being issued in surround sound in deluxe editions and their new albums come out in stereo CD straight to the bargain bin!

Keys To Ascension should have been something much more. All the unfinished studio tracks with Wakeman back in the group have a lot of moments and promise. The live recording is fully botched. An ADAT disaster with gross stuff like individual tracks out of sync. (I read a report on what went wrong in a Mix or EQ mag around the time. The engineer was trying to cut/paste between different performances! Guitar parts a measure off and everything! And then a shrill fidelity issue slathered across the whole thing.) There are audience recordings shared. The band was actually killing it!

That was really the end. Then these few albums with different keys players and finally Jon leaving. 97% filler across the board IMHO. Not bad, just mostly boring and tired.

There's one last live album from the Magnification tour with Rick back in the band that's really worth a listen. It's a board recording and sounds like a bootleg for it but it's worth a listen. Double CD release only.

 

[ProgRules]

There's one last live album from the Magnification tour with Rick back in the band

The Mag tour was the symphonic tour w/ Tom Brislin on keys. Maybe you're thinking about the following tour?

 

[jimfisheye]

The Mag tour was the symphonic tour w/ Tom Brislin on keys. Maybe you're thinking about the following tour?

I think that's what I meant to say.
This one:
2007 - Live At Montreux 2003 (2007, Japan, POCE-19006~7)

I missed this when it came out. I probably wasn't following the band very close. And this is more of a low key fan club release since it's a soundboard and not a proper mix from multitrack. Kind of a gem in the later period.

 

[leefarber]

Keys To Ascension should have been something much more. All the unfinished studio tracks with Wakeman back in the group have a lot of moments and promise. The live recording is fully botched. An ADAT disaster with gross stuff like individual tracks out of sync. (I read a report on what went wrong in a Mix or EQ mag around the time. The engineer was trying to cut/paste between different performances! Guitar parts a measure off and everything! And then a shrill fidelity issue slathered across the whole thing.) There are audience recordings shared. The band was actually killing it!

I absolutely love the live portion of Keys To Ascension, but was always so disappointed by the sound quality. It sounds like an FM broadcast! I'd love to know more about the flaws, i.e. are they inherent in the recording, or is there hope that it can one day be fixed? I have some bootlegs of those shows, but they're really not very good audience recordings. It is fascinating to hear what needed to be cleaned up in the studio afterwards. KTA is my go-to for latter-day live Yes.

 

[ProgRules]

I think that's what I meant to say.
This one:
2007 - Live At Montreux 2003 (2007, Japan, POCE-19006~7)

I missed this when it came out. I probably wasn't following the band very close. And this is more of a low key fan club release since it's a soundboard and not a proper mix from multitrack. Kind of a gem in the later period.

Actually that was 2 tours after symphonic.

I know nothing about the record, but I wouldn't call it low key fan club release unless it was really different from the dvd, which was pretty commonly known and was later upgraded to blu-ray. They aren't from a soundboard that I know of- though the sound isn't stellar (the main complaint being the lack of low end for Chris' bass).

But maybe the CD/LP was different. Anyway, I enjoyed that tour a lot, the next to last one I saw them.

 

[jimfisheye]

Actually that was 2 tours after symphonic.

I know nothing about the record, but I wouldn't call it low key fan club release unless it was really different from the dvd, which was pretty commonly known and was later upgraded to blu-ray. They aren't from a soundboard that I know of- though the sound isn't stellar (the main complaint being the lack of low end for Chris' bass).

But maybe the CD/LP was different. Anyway, I enjoyed that tour a lot, the next to last one I saw them.

Looks like I really did stop paying attention there!

It just had a fan club vibe with the live soundboard mix. The mix is super on point, mind you! It's obvious why they went with releasing it even if a multitrack remix was apparently not possible. There are still the telltale balance issues here and there that are telltale of a board mix. You just can't anticipate every last move and hit 100% for every moment with a live mix. So it appeared as though this was never something they intended to release going into it with no multitrack. But I can only assume and look where that's got me so far! There's a video too? Guess I'll have to look for that now.